All-Star Qualified Coaches - The Real Issue

[tumbleyoda]

No, you're fine. Yes, I am sure there may be just as many kids getting hurt, however, I am sure the % of kids getting injured doing level 1 skills that have attempted them within the confines of an allstar facility is probably less than the % being injured attempting level 5 in the same conditions. Hence why you rarely (ever?) see braces on level 1 teams, and it is pretty normal to see athletes on upper levels with them.

I don't know enough about school teams to comment on that. I do know that almost nobody gets a BHS in 3 weeks. Except guys.

:)

Injury is injury no matter what level - but severity is a different argument. On that I agree with you.I am the logic and think thru of the decision. Communicated differently and it would be a different thing. Consulted with tumbling experts - not just EP's and it would be a different thing.

How was this data gathered? Did someone just count braces and report that? Were teams interviewed? Coaches? Parents?The thing to me about braces is you don't know why an athlete is wearing it; we assume it was because of twisting. it may not be. Case point I have an athlete who has a club foot. He wears a brace. He was wearing it before he ever learned how to twist. So is he proof of the fact of the dangers when he has been wearing it for years?

But none of us will know that until that information comes out. With all of the uproar, I don't see the USASF just sitting by and not making any statements.

I am a relative newbie in all this. But since 2004 there has been all this talk about certification - true certification. About true training of coaches. Still waiting. That is the unease. That once (if passed) these rules are accepted there will be no need to certify and re-implement the skills. That we hear all of these goals usually not directly from USASF but from those that support them, but then they don't pan out. The only way I feel USASF/Varsity would move on it is if there was a true threat to their business model. Then because of $$$ at stake they would change. JMO.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I am a relative newbie in all this. But since 2004 there has been all this talk about certification - true certification. About true training of coaches. Still waiting. That is the unease. That once (if passed) these rules are accepted there will be no need to certify and re-implement the skills. That we hear all of these goals usually not directly from USASF but from those that support them, but then they don't pan out. The only way I feel USASF/Varsity would move on it is if there was a true threat to their business model. Then because of $$$ at stake they would change. JMO.

There has been talk about certification and they started with coaches credentialing and hands on tests. I don't think getting credentialed is sufficient. There needs to be a plan put in place and perhaps the issue has warranted that these skills be removed for the time being and that we develop a rigorous certification.

But then what happens when there are 50% of the coaches in the country that can't pass it? Who is going to teach them the proper things? What is going to happen to the kids that don't have tumbling coaches anymore?

There is a lot that needs to be thought about.

 

[Mclovin]

There has been talk about certification and they started with coaches credentialing and hands on tests. I don't think getting credentialed is sufficient. There needs to be a plan put in place and perhaps the issue has warranted that these skills be removed for the time being and that we develop a rigorous certification.

But then what happens when there are 50% of the coaches in the country that can't pass it? Who is going to teach them the proper things? What is going to happen to the kids that don't have tumbling coaches anymore?

There is a lot that needs to be thought about.

If you can't pass it, your gym is not allowed to have a team compete at that level. Your gym is not allowed to have CLASSES taught at that level. Period.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

Injury is injury no matter what level - but severity is a different argument. On that I agree with you.I am the logic and think thru of the decision. Communicated differently and it would be a different thing. Consulted with tumbling experts - not just EP's and it would be a different thing.

How was this data gathered?

I have no idea. I would have to defer you to the USASF for that :p:D

 

[imrichhowboutu]

If you can't pass it, your gym is not allowed to have a team compete at that level. Your gym is not allowed to have CLASSES taught at that level. Period.

And you don't think that will be detrimental to the industry?

They need a plan to get those gyms up to speed. They need a way to teach everyone and get everyone educated.

 

[tumbleyoda]

There has been talk about certification and they started with coaches credentialing and hands on tests. I don't think getting credentialed is sufficient. There needs to be a plan put in place and perhaps the issue has warranted that these skills be removed for the time being and that we develop a rigorous certification.

But then what happens when there are 50% of the coaches in the country that can't pass it? Who is going to teach them the proper things? What is going to happen to the kids that don't have tumbling coaches anymore?

There is a lot that needs to be thought about.

It just makes me feel like we are on a trip somewhere. Don't know where we are going but told to sit back, shut up and enjoy the trip and we will tell you when we get there. We are not all unreasonable people. With me if you show me a workable plan i usually shut up and see if it will play out, or if unhappy do something else.

According to the things I saw in the past on their websites and from a few e-mails, they are (or were) pushing for the kids to go to gymnastic gyms to tumble anyhow so that would lower the cheer gyms overhead. So I am not overly sympathetic on that point since they have been in the past in favor of getting rid of trained tumbling coaches for student teachers. Or those who could chuck a kid over but not tell them how to fix it. They created that monster.

If 50% of the coaches can't pass it, then we have a major problem indeed. So lets start training them now. I train the staff that work at our gym. I want them to know how to do it right.

 

[Mclovin]

And you don't think that will be detrimental to the industry?

They need a plan to get those gyms up to speed. They need a way to teach everyone and get everyone educated.

No. Those gyms can skill compete, just at levels they are capable of coaching...So levels 1 and 2 and probably 3 will deepen dramatically while the upper levels will be smaller. I'm all for that if that means the safety in our sport is first and foremost the goal, not $$$ and not banning skills...

 

[imrichhowboutu]

If 50% of the coaches can't pass it, then we have a major problem indeed. So lets start training them now. I train the staff that work at our gym. I want them to know how to do it right.

I'd say depending on the skill the number may even be more than that. We do need to start training them now, but you need a well thought out program to do it.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I'd say depending on the skill the number may even be more than that. We do need to start training them now, but you need a well thought out program to do it.

Agree. Honestly at times it feels to me like they know what needs to be done, but they are waiting for someone else to do it, and then sweep in and take it over. I am sure some programs will be done but they won't be USASF at this point. Which is what I warned about years ago if they didn't get it together.

 

[yojaehs]

imrichhowboutu I hear ya 100% however what your saying that doesn't compute with me is why are there rules being put in place to limit the .5% of the athletes involved and still nothing is being done with the 20% (overall) at risk doing backhandsprings? Hands on training is a necessity, if coaches don't attend, they aren't certified, if they aren't certified they can't go to World's. They can still go everywhere else.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

imrichhowboutu Hands on training is a necessity, if coaches don't attend, they aren't certified, if they aren't certified they can't go to World's. They can still go everywhere else.

Maybe they should be more strict then that to show this is serious business?

The issue is that I don't see this being rolled out over the summer which is when it really needs to happen. They need required coursed that instructors need to pass with both classroom style and hands on learning.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Maybe they should be more strict then that to show this is serious business?

The issue is that I don't see this being rolled out over the summer which is when it really needs to happen. They need required coursed that instructors need to pass with both classroom style and hands on learning.

And many of us would be on board with that.

 

[yojaehs]

Maybe they should be more strict then that to show this is serious business?

The issue is that I don't see this being rolled out over the summer which is when it really needs to happen. They need required coursed that instructors need to pass with both classroom style and hands on learning.

My idea has always been to create a "core staff" that travel to each regional meeting (the same as the ones that are currently in place) and have them do hands on training, do you think that something like that is possible and realistic to start THIS YEAR? Heck you could even choose tumbling people per region ya know. I think it's possible to at least START sooner rather than later.

 

[tumbleyoda]

My idea has always been to create a "core staff" that travel to each regional meeting (the same as the ones that are currently in place) and have them do hands on training, do you think that something like that is possible and realistic to start THIS YEAR? Heck you could even choose tumbling people per region ya know. I think it's possible to at least START sooner rather than later.

Can we all set up a conference call? I have a number we can use to flesh it out if you like.

 

[yojaehs]

Can we all set up a conference call? I have a number we can use to flesh it out if you like.

Anytime!