All-Star Releasing Athletes

[Mommatotwo]

I'm in nys and have known players to switch mid season. USA hockey rosters are not considered set until dec 31 and even then for state tournament purposes can be modified up to around feb 1. This actually gives state tourney bound split season teams some flexibility in their roster. Any changes made after dec 31 must be petitioned through the nysaha and they have the power to approve or not approve the petition.

It has been a few years since I was heavily involved in hockey so this may have changed a bit but I have not heard of anything to this date.

Eta: regardless of when any roster change occurred with hockey the athlete had to have a predetermined number of games played with the new organization to be eligible for any state/league tournament

Ones perception is not always reality.

I'm thinking things may have changed. My son started travel hockey four years ago. They sign a commitment form at the beginning, right when they are accepted to a roster. That is where they play for the season.

I would hate to see cheerleaders be in the same situation. It can be a long season without a team. Unfortunately, the release system for cheer is not ideal but I think it is a step in the right direction.



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[quitthedrama]

They only need a release to compete at Worlds, not move on, switch gyms, compete at bid events, Summit, US Finals, the One, Amazing, Champions League, the Majors, or even the Revolution if it's reincarnated.

Does anyone expect this conversation to have a different ending than the last 4 times we've had it?

No but does that mean we should stop talking about it? USASF has done a lot of things wrong in the past and IMO never would have changed them if it wasn't for certain people in the industry (I.e. @BlueCat) continue to question and ask for change.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Nope, not planning on that so please stick around.


Eta: I honestly don't know this but knowing there has been some disputes and the usasf has looked into them how is that done? Assuming someone has to contact their regional rep who addresses it but am not sure. Any insight for us?

Ones perception is not always reality.

The only one I recall hearing about, and I don't know it's validity, is when a gym went out of business and the athletes were allowed to bypass the waiver requirement.

 

[Deleted member 15]

No but does that mean we should stop talking about it? USASF has done a lot of things wrong in the past and IMO never would have changed them if it wasn't for certain people in the industry (I.e. @BlueCat) continue to question and ask for change.

I'm not saying you should stop talking about it. I'm saying I should stop.

 

[Cheer Dad]

The only one I recall hearing about, and I don't know it's validity, is when a gym went out of business and the athletes were allowed to bypass the waiver requirement.

That would seem like no release required since the program was out of business.

I had heard of another situation but am unsure of details so I can't comment but the also supposedly went thru the usasf at the last minute.


Ones perception is not always reality.

 

[Cheer Dad]

@quitthedrama, the issue Andre has continuing is that these conversations always come back around to us saying the rule needs to be changed but not offering a proposal of any sort for presentation or concept.



Ones perception is not always reality.

 

[Cheer Dad]

I'm thinking things may have changed. My son started travel hockey four years ago. They sign a commitment form at the beginning, right when they are accepted to a roster. That is where they play for the season.

I would hate to see cheerleaders be in the same situation. It can be a long season without a team. Unfortunately, the release system for cheer is not ideal but I think it is a step in the right direction.



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I'll have to look into that. Keep in mind that the hockey player needs a release before joining another program regardless the time of season and the only way a release cannot be signed is if the athlete still owes money.


Ones perception is not always reality.

 

[Mommatotwo]

I'll have to look into that. Keep in mind that the hockey player needs a release before joining another program regardless the time of season and the only way a release cannot be signed is if the athlete still owes money.


Ones perception is not always reality.

Right and I actually think that is a good thing. I know people leave programs owing lots of money and move to the next just to do the same to them. (Talking about cheer now.) If the release in cheer was only based in financial, and not on personal feelings, then it could be okay. There would need to be an appeals process in place.


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[quitthedrama]

@quitthedrama, the issue Andre has continuing is that these conversations always come back around to us saying the rule needs to be changed but not offering a proposal of any sort for presentation or concept.



Ones perception is not always reality.

not sure I agree, and I don't believe parents are able to submit a proposal. Otherwise I would be happy to do so.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

How long is the season?


Ones perception is not always reality.

Seasons can be anywhere between 6-12 months depending on your age and level. Players are carded with the state and club in June/July and are therefore committed. Tryouts are typically April/May/June.


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[CharlotteASMom]

@Andre makes a good point. These conversations follow the same steps every discussion.

1. Rule is discussed and clarified again.
2. Examples are given how rule works or doesn't work
3. Rule declared bad because other sports don't have one followed by info that many youth sports actually do have pretty strict release rules.
4. Cheer declared a completely different sport so other youth sport rules don't apply.
5. USASF accused of only protecting the gym and that there are only a few people in the industry that really care about the sport.

So I'll add my own last step that I've kept saying. If you want to change it then do some research. Look at what other long running, successful sports are doing and what their expectations are for their athletes and families. Make an honest and fair proposal based on this information instead of trying to recreate the wheel.


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[Emily]

In order to change the dicscussion-steps ;)

@Andre what was the exact intention (=problem that you wanted to get rid of) behind this rule?
Were the gym owners complaining about losing too many athletes after putting in a lot of work into a team during the summer months?
Were athletes changing gyms for worlds for reasons like: I am not last pass anymore/I don't fly center anymore/....
Were athletes switching gyms mid-season and just left a huge non-paid bill behind?
Were bigger gyms recruiting athletes from other gyms "out of spite"?
There are a lot of scenarios I could think of that could have encouraged the USASF to finally establish this rule. I guess if we could truly understand the reason for the rule, it would be easier for us to come up with a solution that takes both sides - the gym owners and the athletes - into account.

 

[yojaehs]

Some areas of the country do not even have the option to compete until mid December unless they want to travel by air. I have seen multiple examples of a gym with a "level 5" team that practices all year as a level 5 team and gives every indication they will compete as a level 5 team, and come January decide to drop to a level 4. How is this fair to the athlete that has been strung along for 6+ months by the gym owner who has been promising a Worlds team?

My understanding is that if a team changes (in similar situation as you've mentioned) then a release will be given - Example - Coed Level 5 team chooses to go all-girl the boys would be released if the gym is not offering a team for them.
BUT with that being said, the writing is probably on the wall WAY before the "December" competition. My main point is families need to take responsibility when choosing a program they will be investing in. Yes, INVESTING. Time, money, relationships. Would you buy a house that the roof is falling down? If it had water leaks? If you didn't research that investment you have no one to blame but yourself if down the road a pipe bursts. Yes, there are "special" situations and in those legitimate "special" situations there are ways out. I just see way too many people not researching then complaining that things are bad.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

@quitthedrama, the issue Andre has continuing is that these conversations always come back around to us saying the rule needs to be changed but not offering a proposal of any sort for presentation or concept.



Ones perception is not always reality.

So I'll add my own last step that I've kept saying. If you want to change it then do some research. Look at what other long running, successful sports are doing and what their expectations are for their athletes and families. Make an honest and fair proposal based on this information instead of trying to recreate the wheel.
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Except that if you look at past conversations, actually MANY suggestions have been made. In one thread, we had a whole process for appeals outlined, including a way to fund it, as well as people willing to do it free of charge.

No one is trying to reinvent the wheel. People are saying, "Gee, this rule seems awfully one sided in favor of the non-paying side. Could we make it a little more of a 2-way street?" I just don't get why we're still talking about it and the people who actually have the power to make changes are like, "Sigh... why are we still talking about this?" Because the people spending the money want a change to be made, that's why.

But in typical cheer fashion, the people funding it all are told to take a seat. I think the real question is not "ugh...why are we still talking about this?" It's "ugh...why are we still talking about this and no one is listening or doing anything about it? Why are the ptb (who can see that we keeeeeep talking about this) busy making rules about new stuff, and discussing changing the age grid AGAIN, instead of trying to fix problems that actually DO exist?" (Problem in this case = something your CUSTOMER is unhappy about)

@Andre I think the steering wheel question was fair. If they change the car completely, is the buyer still responsible? No. And, if said buyer chose to, they could go buy another car, without having to wait for a release - and without getting rid of the old car first. And before you say, "but you can go cheer, just not at worlds," the car company cannot put ANY stipulations on future purchases. They don't say, "you can buy a car... just not a Honda Accord." This is the same thing I said with the FiOS example earlier. You can swith to DirecTv, whether FiOS likes it or not - you may have future financial ramifications with FiOS, but they can't stop you from switching.

Consumer goods and services such as cars, tv, the oft-used coke/Pepsi example do not lock customers into their product, so stop using them as examples. They lock them into a FINANCIAL agreement, which I don't think most people on here are disputing - if you owe the gym money, you should pay it. But these examples have nothing in common with this. If people want to insist they are the same, then to answer your question, yes. If I buy a Toyota Camry, and decide I hate it, then yes, I most certainly can go buy a Honda Accord, without Toyota's permission.

Edited to add:

Side note - it is possible to discuss something ad nauseum and effect change. Read the threads from a year or two ago about this - I was compleeeeeeetely on the other side of the fence. After a few times of seeing how spiteful and childish gym owners can be... I've totally changed my mind.

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[CharlotteASMom]

@Just-a-Mom I disagree about not reinventing the wheel. Cheer has argued how different this sport is for years and that we can therefore not look to other sports for ideas, but there's a lot to be learned from other long term highly successful and competent youth sport governing bodies.

I will always argue that it's a perception problem. Cheer families feel that a year of their child's life either at a gym they don't care for or not cheering at all is equal to the end of the world. Many other youth sports believe in looking at all options, educating yourself, and then committing. If you made a mistake then that's on you. Wait a year and make a change.

Lastly I don't say any of this lightly. My own daughter was a "victim" of the no release soccer rule when she was in a bad situation. When we wanted to leave and go to another club I was informed of the rule. That was on me. I didn't educate myself. She didn't play for 6 months and we joined another club the next year. I lost some money and she lost a little time but again that was my fault because I didn't properly research the club or the NC soccer rules. I don't blame the organization.


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