All-Star Releasing Athletes

[Mommatotwo]

The hockey rules vary by state. In Illinois, there is a two-choice rule, where (theoretically) a kid can only play for two Tier II clubs IN THEIR LIFETIME. If they want a choice back, they have to petition to AHAI, who makes the decision. The clubs can state their case, but it isn't their decision.


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Wow! That could really limit a child who has outgrown a program.


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[CharlotteASMom]

I think the problem with the release rule now is gym owners can decide to give a release based on their personal feelings. There isn't a set criteria that has been defined as to why a release should be given or why they shouldn't. There are shady gym owners out there and they should not have the power to not release an athlete without reason.


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That's pretty interesting! What is the general feeling about this in the hockey world? Do people fight it? Make it work?

 

[Mommatotwo]

That's pretty interesting! What is the general feeling about this in the hockey world? Do people fight it? Make it work?

My son is just turning 11, but has been playing for a total of 7 years.
My son changed organizations two years ago because he outgrew the program and we were unhappy with the coaching. His last season was horrible. It was either stick it out or don't play.

I think because the rules are set and we know to pick the organization wisely or you are stuck. I also think people probably complain about the releases but I may not hear it. A hockey organization usually has a board and not just one or two owners. I'm sure they get all the complaints, lol.



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[gofriars610]

My son is just turning 11, but has been playing for a total of 7 years.
My son changed organizations two years ago because he outgrew the program and we were unhappy with the coaching. His last season was horrible. It was either stick it out or don't play.

I think because the rules are set and we know to pick the organization wisely or you are stuck. I also think people probably complain about the releases but I may not hear it. A hockey organization usually has a board and not just one or two owners. I'm sure they get all the complaints, lol.



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That's nuts. Maine is mostly you play with whatever geographic area you're assigned to for the state leagues (but I'm pretty sure there's a way around it if you ask), but if you want to play Triple A or for a program that plays in a different league other than the state league you are free to try out for those programs as well.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

That's pretty interesting! What is the general feeling about this in the hockey world? Do people fight it? Make it work?

I don't know anything about hockey or soccer. But i do know they have appeals processes (thanks, google!)

And I do know irish dance. Their rules are very black and white - and leave no room for teachers' or directors' personal (hurt) feelings to dictate the release. Irish dance has no off season. Even cheer has more of an off season than irish dance. It just goes, year round. You can take a break from competing whenever, but there is no official break in competition season. The closest they have is that January 1st is when someone would change levels, based on the previous year's placements at competition.

The rule is simple: if you change irish dance schools, you cannot compete for 6 months. No release needed, you just can't register for a competition for 6 months from the date you submit - in writing - your new registration at your new school (you submit it the irish dance equivalent of the usasf).

The difference: it's the governing body making the decision (not angry coaches), there's an appeals process, and there are clearly outlined exceptions. These are things like:
- the class you were taking at their school is no longer offered (cheer equivalent = no more level appropriate team)
- death of your teacher (no real cheer equivalent - most cheer teams have many coaches, and they're not "tied" to the student as they are in irish dance)
- Moving far enough away that the commute is no longer reasonable (cheer equivalent = the same)
- the teacher does not maintain certifications, or is replaced by a teacher that is not certified (cheer equivalent = no certified coaches anymore)
- a "significant change in staff" - most teachers that the student started with are no longer there (cheer equivalent = couldn't happen because coaches come and go on a whim. This would be too much to track. Irish dance teachers stay for 20+ years at a time)

Just saying it's not impossible to add reasonable restraints to the rule.
What I'm confused about is why are people not answering that? Everyone keeps posting about why there is a rule, and why 6 months is enough time to male a decision. But I'm confused... I don't get why there is a problem with outlining a few scenarios where a release would not be needed?

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[12stepCheermom]

I don't know anything about hockey or soccer. But i do know they have appeals processes (thanks, google!)

And I do know irish dance. Their rules are very black and white - and leave no room for teachers' or directors' personal (hurt) feelings to dictate the release. Irish dance has no off season. Even cheer has more of an off season than irish dance. It just goes, year round. You can take a break from competing whenever, but there is no official break in competition season. The closest they have is that January 1st is when someone would change levels, based on the previous year's placements at competition.

The rule is simple: if you change irish dance schools, you cannot compete for 6 months. No release needed, you just can't register for a competition for 6 months from the date you submit - in writing - your new registration at your new school (you submit it the irish dance equivalent of the usasf).

The difference: it's the governing body making the decision (not angry coaches), there's an appeals process, and there are clearly outlined exceptions. These are things like:
- the class you were taking at their school is no longer offered (cheer equivalent = no more level appropriate team)
- death of your teacher (no real cheer equivalent - most cheer teams have many coaches, and they're not "tied" to the student as they are in irish dance)
- Moving far enough away that the commute is no longer reasonable (cheer equivalent = the same)
- the teacher does not maintain certifications, or is replaced by a teacher that is not certified (cheer equivalent = no certified coaches anymore)
- a "significant change in staff" - most teachers that the student started with are no longer there (cheer equivalent = couldn't happen because coaches come and go on a whim. This would be too much to track. Irish dance teachers stay for 20+ years at a time)

Just saying it's not impossible to add reasonable restraints to the rule.
What I'm confused about is why are people not answering that? Everyone keeps posting about why there is a rule, and why 6 months is enough time to male a decision. But I'm confused... I don't get why there is a problem with outlining a few scenarios where a release would not be needed?

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I actually really like this dead period rule. It's not terribly different than transfer student eligibility in high school sports in NC. If you make a voluntary transfer to a school that isn't your homeschool, that's fine, but you sit out 365 days. So schools can't recruit that football player and get him on transfer because you'd still have to wait a year to get him. Now if he legitimately moves that's not an issue but if you're attending a school outside your home district the rule applies.

I like that for cheer. I even like the period of months thing and don't mind it much for all levels, not just worlds. You can leave a program at any time but you've got a waiting period before you can be rostered for a competition (practice and tumble all you want, you just can't compete) with any other gym. Most gyms turnover their season on roughly the same schedule. So anyone can change programs between the day after the summit until September 1? October 1? Maybe the same as now...until the team you are rostered with competes....and if you compete with them and then leave there's a waiting period. 3 months, 4, 6 etc. that you can't be rostered for a competition.

The only caveat I'd leave is if you owe a balance...if you do, your waiting period starts the day your balance is paid. You wait three months to pay it, you just extended your bench time.

I could get into an idea like that. It could be across the board and clear. No chance for super nice coaches to say "sure honey" or super mean ones to refuse to release you at all.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Parents aren't even given the opportunity to enroll their child in USASF membership - why the implied secrecy? If parents were required to do it themselves (another rule that I feel should be changed), then they would have to check an "I agree" box that they have reviewed all of the USASF rules and the release rule should be bolded and highlighted.

Parents could register their athletes last season. I don't see why that would change next season.

 

[Ashley]

this isn't soccer.... I know of more sports that don't require a release (i.e. gymnastics) than do. However, I don't really care about what other sports do and I don't see why the comparison needs to be made. I have seen first hand athletes get deliberately manipulated and screwed over by a gym. I don't know how that is acceptable by anyone's standards.

Gymnastics isn't a team sport. Maybe we don't have to compare it specifically to soccer, but we should compare it to other team sports at least.

 

[Cheer Dad]

That's pretty interesting! What is the general feeling about this in the hockey world? Do people fight it? Make it work?

In hockey the only reason a program cannot release a player is if the kid owes money. Once all financial obligations are met then a release must be granted. If one is not then the kid can go to a nysaha or USA hockey section rep for an inquiry. The sectional reps have a chain of command and can grant the release based on what they find


Ones perception is not always reality.

 

[Klynn641]

Without that current rule (even though there are some flaws) you would have gyms poaching/recruiting/going after a local rival's gym lower level teams as well to put them to a Worlds team. Why stay on gym A Level 3/4 team when you can go to gym B and be on their Level 5 Worlds team?

Why are gyms going to be going to other gyms poaching level 3 athletes for their Worlds team ? That seems highly unlikely. A Restricted Level 5 maybe but not a Level 3. How many Worlds athletes are only performing Level 3 skills ? Besides, they still can poach away until November when a release becomes necessary. The rule was obviously established to prevent poaching other Worlds teams athletes. So they determined they would arbitrarily apply the release rule to all Worlds athletes without consideration of it's impact on the lower level athletes. The way the rule currently reads it gives the gyms all the power to use the release to control an athlete, if they choose to. There are many scenarios where the rule can be abused and the athlete is forced to suffer unjustifiably. The rule is bias and only takes the gym's position into consideration. And it's done at the athletes expense.


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[luv2cheer92]

Why are gyms going to be going to other gyms poaching level 3 athletes for their Worlds team ? That seems highly unlikely. A Restricted Level 5 maybe but not a Level 3. How many Worlds athletes are only performing Level 3 skills ? Besides, they still can poach away until November when a release becomes necessary. The rule was obviously established to prevent poaching other Worlds teams athletes. So they determined they would arbitrarily apply the release rule to all Worlds athletes without consideration of it's impact on the lower level athletes. The way the rule currently reads it gives the gyms all the power to use the release to control an athlete, if they choose to. There are many scenarios where the rule can be abused and the athlete is forced to suffer unjustifiably. The rule is bias and only takes the gym's position into consideration. And it's done at the athletes expense.


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I would say there is probably a good amount of athletes at small gyms that are on lower level teams because that is all they have. (Smart) Small gyms aren't going to make a level 5 or even R5 team just because 1 or 2 kids have a full/double, but some athletes want to stay at their local gym so they cheer on level 3/4 teams with higher skills. So it's not level 3 athletes being asked to join worlds teams, it's level 5 athletes that are on lower level teams. While I dislike the one-sidedness (is that a word? lol) of the current writing of the rule, I fully agree with its intent in preventing mid-season gym hopping. I even would maybe like to see it applied across the board to all levels once it is cleaned up and an appeals process is put in place.

 

[Klynn641]

This only furthers my point. Why should a Level 5 athlete be forced to remain on a Level 3 team ? If a gym doesn't have a level appropriate team, the athlete should be able to change gyms and teams. To not allow a move like that hurts the athlete but benefits the gym.


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[luv2cheer92]

This only furthers my point. Why should a Level 5 athlete be forced to remain on a Level 3 team ? If a gym doesn't have a level appropriate team, the athlete should be able to change gyms and teams. To not allow a move like that hurts the athlete but benefits the gym.


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Well they probably know before they compete that they will be on a level 3 team, they have plenty of time to leave beforehand if they really want to be on a level 5 team. I'd have little to no sympathy for someone who decides in March/April that they all of a sudden want to go to worlds that year and can't. There are definitely circumstances where the rule punishes the athlete, but in that case, it's on the athlete. Most gyms have tryouts around May, that gives you at least 6 months depending on when you first compete to decide whether or not that team is for you, in my mind, that is way more than enough time.

 

[Cheer Dad]

Well they probably know before they compete that they will be on a level 3 team, they have plenty of time to leave beforehand if they really want to be on a level 5 team. I'd have little to no sympathy for someone who decides in March/April that they all of a sudden want to go to worlds that year and can't. There are definitely circumstances where the rule punishes the athlete, but in that case, it's on the athlete. Most gyms have tryouts around May, that gives you at least 6 months depending on when you first compete to decide whether or not that team is for you, in my mind, that is way more than enough time.

I do to think it is the L3 kids moving to L5 that are the main focus since they know they are starting at level 3. It is more the L5 kids whose team drops a level after nov 1 or those that are cut front the team after nov 1



Ones perception is not always reality.

 

[yojaehs]

1st let me say I am in NO WAY a fan of seeing kids getting screwed over. I have dealt with the "releasing" of athletes both to and from the teams I've coached. I've dealt with both sides, neither was a "fun" experience. I've NEVER screwed a kid over but I have seen how it works. As a coach it's frustrating to go until December and have an athlete "change their mind" but I signed and moved on. I think this rule is like MANY other situations in cheer and that is that it's hard to look at "big picture" when personal experience can cloud the view. Yes, I've had personal experience (on both sides) but that doesn't mean I think it's bad. I rink their is MORE than enough time for a proper decision to be made. I DO wish there was an appeal process for the "special" situations.

For every "special" situation there are 10 that just want to jump ship and run.


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