All-Star Sandbagging

[Lisa Seye]

From Varsity:

"The MAXIMUM number of individuals allowed to crossover from the 2016 Cheerleading Worlds to The Summit will be 5 athletes per team. Level 5 athletes that competed at Cheerleading Worlds can only cross to level 4 & 5 Summit divisions (Excluded: Level 4.2). Level 6 athletes that competed at Cheerleading Worlds can only cross over to level 5 Summit division."

IMO from reading this, it means a level 5 World's athlete can cross over to 4 and 5, but not 4.2.

Well that's my interpretation but someone else interprets the excluded statement as that 4.2 is excluded from the rule. I disagree with them but I'm just a cheer parent lol

 

[Boughetto]

I'm surrounded by gyms that Sandbag as their business model. It's frustrating as a Coach to watch a team warmup squad back handsprings and more than half of the team warmup standing and running tucks but then go slaughter Mini 1. I saw a Tiny Prep team with full squad front and back walkovers. Tiny Prep. I actually had to explain to some of my new parents what sandbagging was this weekend after seeing so many examples of it in the lower levels. When you are consistently 8-10 points ahead of the whole division, that's a huge red flag for sandbagging.

This is crazy! What kind of gym would do something like this?? How can parents and athletes feel good about sandbagging like this??? It's one thing to "stack" a team but a tiny prep with full squad front/back walkovers...come on now.

 

[catlady]

Stacked teams don't contain level appropriate athletes as in the case of your daughter. Rather they contain athletes with solid skills more suited for a significantly higher level team.

Again, I'll have to agree to disagree. If you are given a deck and asked to "stack" the cards, you deal yourself the best possible hand with the deck given. If you want to blatantly cheat, you replace all the cards with Aces, which would be replacing all lower level cards with trump cards. Some gyms don't have 20 Sr. aged level two kids to begin with so, those teams may consist of two-level 1 athletes, eight-level 2 athletes, five- level 3 athletes, four- level 4 kids, and two-level 5 kids. They are working with what they have to meet ratio's to max out and that is a "stacked" team. So, 20 Sr. aged heavily skilled level two kids can be considered a "stacked" team in comparison to other gyms. Twenty level 5 kids on a level two would not be considered stacked because they can be "level 5" and that's considered sandbagging.

 

[dawgshow]

This is crazy! What kind of gym would do something like this?? How can parents and athletes feel good about sandbagging like this??? It's one thing to "stack" a team but a tiny prep with full squad front/back walkovers...come on now.

Those are level 1 skills. How is that wrong?


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[nicolee]

I love y'all but I can't believe we're having this conversation again, when there are approximately ten thousand pages of forum discussion on the topic.

 

[SL&AM]

Those are level 1 skills. How is that wrong?


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I see nothing wrong with squad BWO/FWO for ANY level 1 team---Tiny up to Senior; that should be the aim of every single level 1 team. I fail to see the issue too?

 

[Fiercecheermom]

"Stick around after Worlds, headed to the Summit! Turn that Level 5 into a 3, yeah we up and done it."

Love and miss that...think we need to dig it up and repost..it is the season you know ;)

 

[SL&AM]

This is crazy! What kind of gym would do something like this?? How can parents and athletes feel good about sandbagging like this??? It's one thing to "stack" a team but a tiny prep with full squad front/back walkovers...come on now.

Not to beat a dead horse, beyond what I already posted, but what is the issue you take? That they shouldn't be a Prep team or shouldn't be a Tiny team? I know when most of us think of Tiny's we think of cute tykes running around waving, smiling and maybe doing a front roll but Tiny's has been pretty competitive for as long as CP has been in the sport.

 

[Fiercecheermom]

Sure, who needs school anyway.

These athletes do...and maybe some of their parents need to go back as well. Since you and I are on the same page please feel free to cover your ears...ATHLETES WILL NOT GET A SCHOLARSHIP FOR CHEER!

 

[klynn64]

I love y'all but I can't believe we're having this conversation again, when there are approximately ten thousand pages of forum discussion on the topic.

Not everyone in this conversation was around for those discussions. And everybody speaks from their own perspective with unique questions that those past pages may not answer. If personally not interested in the topic of sandbagging I might suggest a different thread. In particular one that isn't labelled sandbagging.

 

[Boughetto]

Not to beat a dead horse, beyond what I already posted, but what is the issue you take? That they shouldn't be a Prep team or shouldn't be a Tiny team? I know when most of us think of Tiny's we think of cute tykes running around waving, smiling and maybe doing a front roll but Tiny's has been pretty competitive for as long as CP has been in the sport.

My issue is they shouldn't be a prep team. The prep level is a developmental/fundamental level? Yes or No? if they've mastered full squad tumbling shouldn't they be a regular allstar team not prep?

 

[amy1k]

My issue is they shouldn't be a prep team.

Here prep teams are a money/time saver for families. Also, kids that age can pick up tumbling very quickly. But mostly prep isn't about skill differences, it's about less investment...especially for families who have only just tasted the cheer koolaid.

 

[klynn64]

Again, I'll have to agree to disagree. If you are given a deck and asked to "stack" the cards, you deal yourself the best possible hand with the deck given. If you want to blatantly cheat, you replace all the cards with Aces, which would be replacing all lower level cards with trump cards. Some gyms don't have 20 Sr. aged level two kids to begin with so, those teams may consist of two-level 1 athletes, eight-level 2 athletes, five- level 3 athletes, four- level 4 kids, and two-level 5 kids. They are working with what they have to meet ratio's to max out and that is a "stacked" team. So, 20 Sr. aged heavily skilled level two kids can be considered a "stacked" team in comparison to other gyms. Twenty level 5 kids on a level two would not be considered stacked because they can be "level 5" and that's considered sandbagging.

If you stack the deck you deliberately place the cards in the deck in a specific manner so that when dealt you alone get the best of all of the cards for your hand in an attempt to guarantee a win.

 

[dawgshow]

My issue is they shouldn't be a prep team. The prep level is a developmental/fundamental level? Yes or No? if they've mastered full squad tumbling shouldn't they be a regular allstar team not prep?

No. Prep levels are offered for a few reasons. First, L1 prep teams compete the exact same skills as non-prep L1 teams. The routine is just shorter. L2 and L3 do have some differences between prep and "regular" levels but not many.
It's easy to say "oh, since they've mastered all of the level skills they should just jump up to all-star, but that would require new music and a new routine since there is a 30 second time difference.

Also, some gyms (not all) put out prep as a lower cost alternative. It wouldn't be right to add expenses to parents mid-season just because their kids advanced.

Finally, it's nearly the end of the season. I would expect teams to be full squad, or near full squad, skills by now. They've been practicing them for nearly a year after all.

 

[nicolee]

Not everyone in this conversation was around for those discussions. And everybody speaks from their own perspective with unique questions that those past pages may not answer. If personally not interested in the topic of sandbagging I might suggest a different thread. In particular one that isn't labelled sandbagging.

Wow, no need to be rude.
There is another large thread on this topic, so I see no reason why this discussion couldn't take place there.