All-Star Summit Bid Winners 2015

[CheerDad18]

Do youth 5s often attend competitions that offer a deep pool of competitors? Why would the Summit be any different? I guess I don't understand the logic. I mean, it's FINE to choose not to attend, but the circumstances shouldn't be a surprise.

Amy you are taking this personally when it's not directed at you. There generally are deeper pools of talent at the bigger comps. We can all point out the exceptions. You will see there will be plenty of divisions that don't have 10 plus teams competing.

My suggestion was purely hypothetical. You would be awarding bids to second and third place teams where their would be 10+ teams.

I don't care about the wild cards that are competing this year, it is what it is. If one advances or ten do it doesn't matter because if my daughters team doesn't hit day one they are done.

My daughters team last year had a paid bid from Cheersport. Two girls that double team had a collision performing with the other team 45 minutes before her team went on. One girl went to the hospital. Our girls didn't even real get to perform their routine. They were out day 1.

What I do care about is the sport in general. It bugs me when they don't act like one.

 

[Pebbles49]

@amy1k, yes you are correct in saying that Summit should not be a surprise in the lack of participants, but last year Summit had only 3 teams, which my daughter's team against numerous times during that year already and in fact, this year out of the 3 teams that competed in Summit as Y5, only 1 team is still competes as Y5, so yes, expense and competition dictated greatly on the decision not to go. Plus, when my daughter's team won both NCA and UCA, they had no desired or need to prove anything else...

 

[Pebbles49]

@amy1k[/USER], yes you are correct in saying that Summit should not be a surprise in the lack of participants, but last year Summit had only 3 teams, which my daughter's team competed against numerous times during that year already and unfortunately, this year out of the 3 teams that competed in last year Summit as Y5, only 1 team still competes as Y5, so yes, expense and competition dictated greatly on the decision not to go. Plus, when my daughter's team won both NCA and UCA, they had no desired or need to prove anything else...Matter of fact, they reduplicated those wins again, back to back NCA and UCA titles.

 

[catlady]

It's a division that will have 30+ teams two years in a row. The Summit was supposed to be the best of the best across all levels 1 thru 5. They should try to insure there is enough competition for everyone. There were division last year that had only 2 or 3 competitors. Let's be honest how big a win is it to beat one other team vs beating 30 plus teams. I think the Summit should strive to have at least 10 teams in a division. If necessary maybe cap some divisions at 30. If you are going to travel all that way and spend the money you should have cometition.

If it is a competition that is supposed to be the best of the best and a team truly doesn't have a performance worthy of a bid, how is Varsity to "insure" enough competition? The part that I find interesting is parents complain there isn't enough competition so, they add competitors and then parents go all, "Whoa now, they didn't earn that bid, that's not right." And, if there is too many in a division that truly earned a bid, and let's face facts junior level 3 is one of the most populated and talented divisions out there , parents are, "Why so many in one division? How's that fair?!" How many times did we hear at an event a bid was turned down and it went to EP's choice (probably to a division that didn't have as much competition) and people didn't feel that was right?

If what people want is an even amount of competition per division then have Varsity EP's submit videos of their first, second and third place winners after each competition and then at the end of the year have Varsity review the videos and select a few paids bid per division, so many at large bids, and some WC's based on videos submitted. Bid chances would be equal across the Nation, divisions would be full, and everyone would have an opportunity at a bid as long as they placed in the top three at a Varsity event. But, truth, I'm pretty sure people would find something to complain about that, as well.

 

[amy1k]

I was thinking about this a little. I don't want to offend anyone, so put on your big kid pants. I'm truly just working it out in my head here.

Is it harder for some divisions to get bids because they are often (usually???) given out based on percent of perfection? I've had a hard time understanding why there have been complaints about lack of bids for these teams...youth 5, for example. I've never seen a y5 team...I've only recently seen a j5, so maybe I'll use them to illustrate my meaning.

The j5 I saw performed very few level 5 skills. They won their division, because they were the only team, but I'd assume their percent of perfection was fairly low. Another gym could probably beat them by creating a j5 team with just a handful more level 5 skills. Actually, now that I started, I think j4 would be an even better example. My daughter's j3 team is filled with athletes who have, over the season, developed a great deal of level 4 tumbling. All but one have standing tucks and all of them have other running or standing level 4 skills. They have stunt groups who could do some level 4 stunts fairly easily. They could probably compete level 4. They'd have a fair chance at winning, based on j4 teams being somewhat rare. But they'd very much struggle with maxing out a level 4 scoresheet and I doubt they'd come close to getting a higher percent of perfection score over another level 4 team, so they are a much more appropriate for them level 3.

Do higher level teams in younger age brackets not always max out skills? Does that make them, in a contest requiring them all to be judged at the same level (a level 4 is a level 4, youth or senior or whatever), not a strong contender? Do y5 teams tend to have full team, maxed tumbling and stunting?

 

[megsmom]

I was thinking about this a little. I don't want to offend anyone, so put on your big kid pants. I'm truly just working it out in my head here.

Is it harder for some divisions to get bids because they are often (usually???) given out based on percent of perfection? I've had a hard time understanding why there have been complaints about lack of bids for these teams...youth 5, for example. I've never seen a y5 team...I've only recently seen a j5, so maybe I'll use them to illustrate my meaning.

Do higher level teams in younger age brackets not always max out skills? Does that make them, in a contest requiring them all to be judged at the same level (a level 4 is a level 4, youth or senior or whatever), not a strong contender? Do y5 teams tend to have full team, maxed tumbling and stunting?

This is how it was explained to us for Y5:
Youth elite and all youth 5 teams have always been an at large
The reality is if bids had gone by level then 11 year olds holding 9 year olds were at a disadvantage to senior restricted 5 teams with an 8 year age gap

If bids are given by age it is far easier to have - team of youth age back walk overs than a whole team of the same age throwing two to fulls

So this division is at a disadvantage either way

I would venture to say that this is true for Y4 since no yes have bids at this point.

 

[amy1k]

So, it's not necessarily what I was guessing, then. That most or all kids would have level tumbling on a j3 (or y3, even), but not on a y4 or 5. Doesn't that reasoning give advantage to a y1 then...they're more likely to be able to master level 1 tumbling than a group of senior aged athletes, right?

 

[SheCheers]

I was thinking about this a little. I don't want to offend anyone, so put on your big kid pants. I'm truly just working it out in my head here.

Is it harder for some divisions to get bids because they are often (usually???) given out based on percent of perfection? I've had a hard time understanding why there have been complaints about lack of bids for these teams...youth 5, for example. I've never seen a y5 team...I've only recently seen a j5, so maybe I'll use them to illustrate my meaning.

The j5 I saw performed very few level 5 skills. They won their division, because they were the only team, but I'd assume their percent of perfection was fairly low. Another gym could probably beat them by creating a j5 team with just a handful more level 5 skills. Actually, now that I started, I think j4 would be an even better example. My daughter's j3 team is filled with athletes who have, over the season, developed a great deal of level 4 tumbling. All but one have standing tucks and all of them have other running or standing level 4 skills. They have stunt groups who could do some level 4 stunts fairly easily. They could probably compete level 4. They'd have a fair chance at winning, based on j4 teams being somewhat rare. But they'd very much struggle with maxing out a level 4 scoresheet and I doubt they'd come close to getting a higher percent of perfection score over another level 4 team, so they are a much more appropriate for them level 3.

Do higher level teams in younger age brackets not always max out skills? Does that make them, in a contest requiring them all to be judged at the same level (a level 4 is a level 4, youth or senior or whatever), not a strong contender? Do y5 teams tend to have full team, maxed tumbling and stunting?

Typically yes to the first bolded question. You can stack a Youth 1 with full squad everything athletes and completely max out and they can win grand champ every comp they attend. It's really hard to stack to max out a Y4, Y5 or J5 because there just aren't enough in that age group to max out. PLUS, typically, Y5, J5 and R5 are all competing for the same "level 5 bid" (if it exists) and so I would say that R5 has the advantage in that group because you can stack an R5 more easily and you can max out a restricted routine more easily than a non restricted, like with J5. So the J5 needs specialty to doubles and 4 trick baskets and twisting elements in the pyro to max out, whereas the R5 and Y5 does not. Same with level 4 vs 4.2 level 4 needs specialty through to layout, whereas 4.2 needs BHS step out. (for example).

 

[amy1k]

Where I live we very rarely see any of those levels. When I saw a 4.2, they actually earned a bid. Lol! I guess that's why this is interesting to me. Our bids seem equally distributed across levels and age groups, but I suspect the sample is too small to really draw a conclusion. I would wager, though, that even here j3s end up with the highest percentage of bids. It makes sense, being an average of both skill and age. Haha!

 

[CAmom66]

@coach12, I have to agree with you on the parameters laid out for w/c bids, it seems someone came up with a grand idea and others co-signed on the idea and now they are all doing big back strokes against that idea...I think, all they had to do is have the At-Large bids start on Friday-prelims and cut down the number of teams advancing to semis and then have finals on Sunday, thus eliminating the need for w/c bids...I know, I know, it will be too much like the layout they already have for Worlds, but if that layout works why recreate the wheel...

I kind of thought that was the idea - a competition like Worlds for levels 1 -5R. So modeling after Worlds would make perfect sense.

 

[cheermomforever]

I was thinking about this a little. I don't want to offend anyone, so put on your big kid pants. I'm truly just working it out in my head here.

Is it harder for some divisions to get bids because they are often (usually???) given out based on percent of perfection? I've had a hard time understanding why there have been complaints about lack of bids for these teams...youth 5, for example. I've never seen a y5 team...I've only recently seen a j5, so maybe I'll use them to illustrate my meaning.

The j5 I saw performed very few level 5 skills. They won their division, because they were the only team, but I'd assume their percent of perfection was fairly low. Another gym could probably beat them by creating a j5 team with just a handful more level 5 skills. Actually, now that I started, I think j4 would be an even better example. My daughter's j3 team is filled with athletes who have, over the season, developed a great deal of level 4 tumbling. All but one have standing tucks and all of them have other running or standing level 4 skills. They have stunt groups who could do some level 4 stunts fairly easily. They could probably compete level 4. They'd have a fair chance at winning, based on j4 teams being somewhat rare. But they'd very much struggle with maxing out a level 4 scoresheet and I doubt they'd come close to getting a higher percent of perfection score over another level 4 team, so they are a much more appropriate for them level 3.

Do higher level teams in younger age brackets not always max out skills? Does that make them, in a contest requiring them all to be judged at the same level (a level 4 is a level 4, youth or senior or whatever), not a strong contender? Do y5 teams tend to have full team, maxed tumbling and stunting?

Most Yth 5's in my opinion, although Very talented girls! Are pretty much restricted level when it comes to skills. Some doubles, but few. So yes it is hard to get the points for maxing out at level 5 in that division.

 

[SheCheers]

Most Yth 5's in my opinion, although Very talented girls! Are pretty much restricted level when it comes to skills. Some doubles, but few. So yes it is hard to get the points for maxing out at level 5 in that division.

Youth 5 is restricted now, they can't legally do doubles

 

[cheermomforever]

Youth 5 is restricted now, they can't legally do doubles

Did not know that. Thanks. :)

 

[amy1k]

Youth 5 is restricted now, they can't legally do doubles

Do you think that will make it easier for them to get Summit bids?

I think my thoughts are coming from a memory of a discussion at some point about crossovers between y5 and other teams. I could have sworn some people were posting that there were quite a few YE kids with only lower level tumbling and that's why they crossed to a y3.

 

[SheCheers]

Do you think that will make it easier for them to get Summit bids?

I think my thoughts are coming from a memory of a discussion at some point about crossovers between y5 and other teams. I could have sworn some people were posting that there were quite a few YE kids with only lower level tumbling and that's why they crossed to a y3.

Easier than if they weren't restricted, possibly. It really depends on the EP and the bid declaration. When they do it from a % of perfection and award it to the highest, then it makes it more favorable. I think the summit bids are so oddly distributed. It doesn't seemed based off of prior year attendance like worlds bids.