All-Star Tcu Not Allowed To Perform Baskets At Nca Nationals

[King]

I don't mean to butt in and might not offer any new insights, but heck...i'll try.
I kind of agree with Kingston here. No we can't really say that competitive college cheer has a future in 20 years because its not going to well right now, let alone thinking about it working out too far into the future. Its not THAT hard to get a bid to nationals... our school got one and dropped over half their routine when they got there.... I mean there is difinitely competitiveness among the top 3 division 1 schools, but outside of that where is the competitiveness? I mean the fact that the university can restrict whether a team throws baskets or not at competition kind of takes that away. It would be different if NCA said they couldn't throw baskets because they can makes those same restrictions on other teams.

I wonder how many people would even notice if there weren't any more cheerleaders at football or basketball games or if they canceled Nationals. I mean the cheerleaders obviously would, but it would probably not cause a huge uproar outside of the cheerleading community.

Right. There will always be people to be on the sidelines. Colleges and sideline cheerleading doesn't need traditional college cheer. While I don't really 'love' NCATA or STUNT, I like it over nothing. Or international open 5 and 6 (once fixed a little) will take over and all the allstar athletes will go there.

With as many allstar programs as there are out there ever think its funny that so FEW go on to cheer in college?

 

[hiyoe6]

I think there will always be a place for UCA and NCA College Nationals. But I think you'll see many less Louisvilles and HPUs. As long as UCA and NCA High School nationals exsists, college nationals will as well. Club teams still can compete there as well as spirit squads that are looked upon a tad bit more favorably at their university. Is NCA/UCA a flawed system that needs some corrections before it will be taken seriously by anyone except for the teams competing at it? Yes. I still think there needs to be one format. I really would like to see a crowd leading cheer be involved, but still have the athletic side. A 3:00 routine with a mandatory 30 seconds of no music with a cheer sounds good. But most of these schools have cheered all season, so I don't think the actual cheer is all that important. Let them show off their skills - best team wins.

And I think more people would notice if the cheerleaders were missing from the sideline. Some schools have better cheer programs than they have football or basketball programs. I think the current regulations on college cheer are good. Does anyone know how many, if any, major injuries happened at NCA or UCA college nationals? I don't mean sprained ankles or pulled muscles.

 

[hiyoe6]

I do find it interesting that there are so many allstar gyms out there producing quality athletes, but very few quality college cheer programs. I think its mostly due to funding though. In allstars you think of yourself as such an athlete playing a sport. Transitioning that thinking to current college cheerleading is probably a big pill to swallow.

 

[hiyoe6]

I also want to say there ARE people in athletic administrations that EXPECT their cheerleaders to work hard, gain skills, and bring home trophies. You just don't hear from them cuz they arent doing anything crazy about it.

Like the mentality is: if youre going to go [to nationals], you better do well.

 

[King]

I think there will always be a place for UCA and NCA College Nationals. But I think you'll see many less Louisvilles and HPUs. As long as UCA and NCA High School nationals exsists, college nationals will as well. Club teams still can compete there as well as spirit squads that are looked upon a tad bit more favorably at their university. Is NCA/UCA a flawed system that needs some corrections before it will be taken seriously by anyone except for the teams competing at it? Yes. I still think there needs to be one format. I really would like to see a crowd leading cheer be involved, but still have the athletic side. A 3:00 routine with a mandatory 30 seconds of no music with a cheer sounds good. But most of these schools have cheered all season, so I don't think the actual cheer is all that important. Let them show off their skills - best team wins.

And I think more people would notice if the cheerleaders were missing from the sideline. Some schools have better cheer programs than they have football or basketball programs. I think the current regulations on college cheer are good. Does anyone know how many, if any, major injuries happened at NCA or UCA college nationals? I don't mean sprained ankles or pulled muscles.

Sure there will always be a place. Right next to competitive color guard and collegiate band. But wont be as big as it is now.

 

[hiyoe6]

Is it even big now? Someone said it perfectly earlier. Only the top 3 in each division are really fighting it out. And even then theres usually a clear winner from the start who might just have issues with consistency. Not many divisons really are all that competitive that everyone who makes finals has a shot at the title. Most schools just go down for the experience not to actually have a chance at winning. So in reality, competitive color guard and collegiate band competitions might actually be fostering more competition then NCA or UCA Nationals.

 

[King]

Is it even big now? Someone said it perfectly earlier. Only the top 3 in each division are really fighting it out. And even then theres usually a clear winner from the start who might just have issues with consistency. Not many divisons really are all that competitive that everyone who makes finals has a shot at the title. Most schools just go down for the experience not to actually have a chance at winning. So in reality, competitive color guard and collegiate band competitions might actually be fostering more competition then NCA or UCA Nationals.

In every type of competitive environment there are teams that stand out over others. I don't care that UK and U of L are the favorites. I care that there are 4 teams in D1 coed. Especially when there are 125,000 to 200,000 allstar cheerleaders in the US. College should be about 5 times its current size. It is an unbalanced system that has a tenuous existence. There will be a breaking point. Things will change. And we if are not prepared OR don't have an alternative cheerleading can take a major hit.

 

[hiyoe6]

I agree. College cheer should be bigger. Why isn't it? Because its not recognized as a sport by the NCAA? Fine then you have to go with STUNT or NCATA neither of which are viable (in my opinion) for a spirit squad. Yes STUNT is for a spirit squad but they should be doing compulsory elements not choreographed routines. If STUNT were to be the NCATA complusory elements that would be better, but I don't see how STUNT with round off back handsprings could be considered a Varsity Sport. I honestly think the only division that actually has competition year after year out of all the the college nationals in All Girl 3. That is ALWAYS a toss up and never a clear winner.

 

[King]

I agree. College cheer should be bigger. Why isn't it? Because its not recognized as a sport by the NCAA? Fine then you have to go with STUNT or NCATA neither of which are viable (in my opinion) for a spirit squad. Yes STUNT is for a spirit squad but they should be doing compulsory elements not choreographed routines. If STUNT were to be the NCATA complusory elements that would be better, but I don't see how STUNT with round off back handsprings could be considered a Varsity Sport. I honestly think the only division that actually has competition year after year out of all the the college nationals in All Girl 3. That is ALWAYS a toss up and never a clear winner.

All Girl 3 and the intermediate divisions have a good bit of competition.

There is a need for a sport. The problem is the need we have is for 'allstar' or traditional style to be the sport, not NCATA or STUNT. But the requirements are for NCATA or STUNT style, not us. We have a very unique situation (which many like to point out) but its NOT SUSTAINABLE. You can't ignore what can and will happen. When an ostrich buries its head in the sand the world does not stop and forget to notice the ostrich. It is just more susceptible to getting eaten by the lion.

 

[cheerforeverever]

I don't even get why they prohibited Basket Tosses for the Team, what's the point? Did someone get hurt before? Seems like they've been performing Tosses before so why ban them now? This is just confusing to me

Yeah, I was told that someone got seriously injured at a game a couple of years back, so everyone from that year on wasn't allowed to do any baskets.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Does anyone know how many, if any, major injuries happened at NCA or UCA college nationals? I don't mean sprained ankles or pulled muscles.

I'm only aware of 3 at NCA. 2 in warmups and one on the main floor.

 

[King]

Another thing: the safety of the sport because there is only one competition. I think cheer in general is exciting because there are so few competitions, allstar, college, whatever. It is what makes every competition important (unlike baseball which I cant get into because there are SO many games one individual game doesn't matter). But because college only has one event most of the athletes and competitors freak out and increase the risk of injury.

 

[SharkDad]

There are now 4 different forms of competitive cheerleading at the college level.

Cheerleading is sideline only. I can't imagine most if any schools to completely abandon having athletes on the sidelines leading the crowd.

Competitive Cheer is a team that goes to competions (I know, duh). Some teams at schools do this after their Sideline Cheerleading duties, some are formed primarily to compete. Either way even the most respected are only considered and activity at their school and can all fall to the same fate of UofA or TCU at anytime.

Yes NCATA is creating a new sport and thus creating opportunity at their member schools. They did something right if they figured out a format that is recognized by their athletic departments. They are the only organization to be successful at this.

STUNT created a format very similar to NCATA, but by trying to keep to their NCA/UCA style it falls short of academic department acceptance.

So now that we have all these choices at some point we need to find the best solution or compromise for the college community as a whole. It will probably involve making a choice: do you want to be a legitimate sport and be treated as such? If so that will come with many perks and protections, but it has to include some rules and regulations. One major choice will be that if you competitive cheer you will not be able to sideline cheer.

I think there are enough college bound allstars that are willing to make that choice if we provide it for them.

 

[coachrah]

I agree. I have been against the STUNT and NCATA thing from the beginning because I don't feel it was necessary to change things to the format that they made. Of course they will argue that it was a must, but I beg to differ. I feel that if the major players of college cheer, NCA and UCA, came together they could put together a format that is still showing off the athletic ability while still giving them the traditional look that college cheer has always been. Look at Team USA in 2009. They had James Speed and Jomo Thompson has their coed coaches and together they took a NCA and UCA routine and combined it into one that showcased great skill. I like what someone posted in the NCATA Championship thread in the college section, they said that what NCATA has done is not take a step in getting college cheerleading recognized as a sport, they have instead created a new sport to become recognized.

I just don't see teams like Kentucky who are a major part of the basketball and football games up and leaving their tradition because of a governing body that wants them to give that up. If that is what it takes to make college cheer an NCAA sport then so be it but I see a lot of teams skipping it and keeping what they already have.

Well since the CEO of Varsity Brands, president of USA Cheer and UCA (Jeff Webb) and the VP of NCA (Bill Boggs) and director of STUNT have allowed everyone to reach the "promised land" of mass marketing confusion, your insight is noble but you are going to need a "bigger boat". And as for that National Governing Body, USA Cheer, they arrived at your doorstep as heir apparent before you could build a thighstand.

1. Irony #1 Webb testified that cheerleading is an activity and needed to be protected as such. The team on trial was not cheerleading but competitive cheer. Webb testified that cheerleading encapsulated both sideline and competition, therefore, competitive cheer is his idea of a misnomer and he stepped in to stop it. It was with collegiate competitive cheer teams whose only purpose is to compete he took issue, especially if they hoped to make it a sport. Again why? Simply put, the use of the "cheer" word or the 2.5 minute format appears to belong to Varsity Brands and is not collegiate sport, not even by AACA the regulator. Next throw in the word traditional to further confuse. Traditional for me conjurs up pompom shaking no skills attached 1960's antiquation. Why is the word still there? Must be that all encompassing halo effect. If I am the filet mignon of all steak don't mold me into hamburger with your language skills. Since he is full steam ahead for STUNT (love the caps) as a sport,why with all of his resources did he could not/would not make competitive cheer in its present state a sport whether allgirl, coed or both? It only took weeks for post-trial STUNT to get up and running, although the administrator's guide FOR STUNT claims a 5 year venture (kinda funny since USA CHEER is not 5 years old). Why did STUNT not come to the rescue pre-trial? But lets flip this nonsense, should basket tosses, advanced tumbling and 2.5 high pyramids be executed on the unmatted sidelines for collegiate cheerleading? Last time I checked collegiate basketball coincided with cheerleading competition season and at the collegiate level certain skills are not allowed per the well-known fall from a 2.5 pyramid 5 years ago. Best and only reason to execute these skills is on a scoresheet for a matted competition. During NCA Nationals, null and void the pre-45 second crowd response 11 point score...are college teams competing crowd-leading anything during the 2 minute 30 second portion of the total 111 points? He testified that both NCA and UCA 2.5 minute routines were mainly crowdleading components. Under oath he was given an opportunity to wow the judge about the amazing skillsets required to compete at the collegiate level in a 2.5 minute format. He did NOT do that for any of us as parents, coaches and most important athletes. Rather, he naysayed their importance, all the while knowing that the NCAA does not insure these living breathing athletes for the practice of competition nor competition itself. Looks like the AD for TCU figured it out, and therefore saved his University, coach and athletes from liability.

 

[Mrs.CheerExtreme]

There are now 4 different forms of competitive cheerleading at the college level.

Cheerleading is sideline only. I can't imagine most if any schools to completely abandon having athletes on the sidelines leading the crowd.

Competitive Cheer is a team that goes to competions (I know, duh). Some teams at schools do this after their Sideline Cheerleading duties, some are formed primarily to compete. Either way even the most respected are only considered and activity at their school and can all fall to the same fate of UofA or TCU at anytime.

Yes NCATA is creating a new sport and thus creating opportunity at their member schools. They did something right if they figured out a format that is recognized by their athletic departments. They are the only organization to be successful at this.

STUNT created a format very similar to NCATA, but by trying to keep to their NCA/UCA style it falls short of academic department acceptance.

So now that we have all these choices at some point we need to find the best solution or compromise for the college community as a whole. It will probably involve making a choice: do you want to be a legitimate sport and be treated as such? If so that will come with many perks and protections, but it has to include some rules and regulations. One major choice will be that if you competitive cheer you will not be able to sideline cheer.

I think there are enough college bound allstars that are willing to make that choice if we provide it for them.

Do I hear any amens for that one?????!!!!

Despite the fact that there are 100,000 to 200,000 all-star cheerleaders in the U.S. and over 3,000 colleges and universities for these athletes to go to, we have to remember that school cheerleading (whether collegiate or high school) is a WHOLE different world than all-star cheerleading. I mean we even have separate forums for them. If all-stars got to chose between competitive cheer and sideline cheer at whatever school they decided to attend, you would probably see more all-stars cheering in college. It would also help give the better footing that Kingston (and many other people) want. Like SharkDad said it would be considered a sport at that point, which is what we ALL want. There would be more all-stars cheering, which would help it become bigger on the collegiate level and then, my friends, you have a positive feedback loop in which there was a stronger footing, that then helped more people participate, which then gives it more footing and so on and so on.........