All-Star The 'right' Level

[garretttt]

*Sorry i was still adding and my editing time expired*
Continued....
SOOOO i quit the Level 5 team and i went to STINGRAYS(yay) but the only position available since i tried out in August was on a senior level 2 team. In all honestly its the best decision I've ever made. Like i KNOW my chances of winning Cheersport, NCA, and UCA are super high. I may not get to throw the tumbling I've worked hard for or do the stunts I'm used to, but its seriously is just such a huge relief not to have to stress about hoping that everyone gets a full and doesn't kill themselves trying. I just don't understand how some people would rather be on a level 5 team that loses than on a kick-butt lower level team.

maybe its just me but...I WANT THE JACKET. I WANT IT ALL.:)

 

[SheCheers]

I think parents are the ones generally pushing for the higher level. They either think the rest of the team will carry their kid or they're dillusioned at what skill level their child is at. I think the kids/athletes probably just want to be successful and not under a ton of pressure (seems logical). The coaches get stuck between trying to please everyone and doing what's best for the program. The successful programs probably don't try to please everyone.

 

[12stepCheermom]

*Sorry i was still adding and my editing time expired*
Continued....
SOOOO i quit the Level 5 team and i went to STINGRAYS(yay) but the only position available since i tried out in August was on a senior level 2 team. In all honestly its the best decision I've ever made. Like i KNOW my chances of winning Cheersport, NCA, and UCA are super high. I may not get to throw the tumbling I've worked hard for or do the stunts I'm used to, but its seriously is just such a huge relief not to have to stress about hoping that everyone gets a full and doesn't kill themselves trying. I just don't understand how some people would rather be on a level 5 team that loses than on a kick-butt lower level team.

maybe its just me but...I WANT THE JACKET. I WANT IT ALL.:)

Exactly, exactly exactly my point. I've seen the same thing happen with other teams that really weren't the level assigned and the kids themselves decided they wouldn't go through that and left. It's not any better for a gym to put out a team that can't win (at any level) than for the kids who are on it. And putting out a team that can't win just to say you "have it" is nothing more than short sighted ego. Same for someone demanding to be on that team when they're not that level. Works both ways.

 

[12stepCheermom]

I think parents are the ones generally pushing for the higher level. They either think the rest of the team will carry their kid or they're dillusioned at what skill level their child is at. I think the kids/athletes probably just want to be successful and not under a ton of pressure (seems logical). The coaches get stuck between trying to please everyone and doing what's best for the program. The successful programs probably don't try to please everyone.

I think if parents were actually educated about cheer, what levels mean, what skills are required, scoresheets, competitions....the whole nine yards....they'd get a better understanding of where their kid really is. I heard a parent say their kid was really wanting to be a level 4 the following year, "she just had to get that tuck and shed be there."

This is a girl who only has standing 2 multiple handsprings. I've seen a running tuck on the tumble track once and it was months ago. She's a beasty stunter but has no tumbling or jumps. What I really wanted to say was...."um....she needs a STANDING tuck and a running layout."

Yet he was convinced shed be a level 4 with a tuck. If gyms took some time to educate parents as well, they might do themselves a favor when team placements come out of tryouts or standings come out of competition.

 

[CheerBank]

I think if parents were actually educated about cheer, what levels mean, what skills are required, scoresheets, competitions....the whole nine yards....they'd get a better understanding of where their kid really is. I heard a parent say their kid was really wanting to be a level 4 the following year, "she just had to get that tuck and shed be there."

This is a girl who only has standing 2 multiple handsprings. I've seen a running tuck on the tumble track once and it was months ago. She's a beasty stunter but has no tumbling or jumps. What I really wanted to say was...."um....she needs a STANDING tuck and a running layout."

Yet he was convinced shed be a level 4 with a tuck. If gyms took some time to educate parents as well, they might do themselves a favor when team placements come out of tryouts or standings come out of competition.

I think occasionally you do see the beast base who just does not have the tumbling for level 5 or even level 4 be put on that level just for basing, but they need to have some skills with the jumps too I would think.

It does amaze me that more parents do not try to educate themselves on the basic age/level breakdowns and skill requirements for each.

 

[12stepCheermom]

I think occasionally you do see the beast base who just does not have the tumbling for level 5 or even level 4 be put on that level just for basing, but they need to have some skills with the jumps too I would think.

It does amaze me that more parents do not try to educate themselves on the basic age/level breakdowns and skill requirements for each.

And I don't have a problem with that....this particular girl did make the level four for that reason...but I would hope they would not be complacent to not have the tumbling skills and work toward getting them rather than saying, "I'm only on this team to stunt" and sitting out while others work tumbling and jumps. But, sometimes just saying "I'm on a level 4" is all that matters to people...that's when I have an issue.

 

[5-6-7-8]

I think if parents were actually educated about cheer, what levels mean, what skills are required, scoresheets, competitions....the whole nine yards....they'd get a better understanding of where their kid really is.

THIS!!!!

I so wish there was more education for the parents! I don't know why it seems gyms/owners/coaches I have seen want to keep the scoring a mystery.

It would be awesome to have the coaches review scoresheets with parents and athletes. I have been trying to read up and figure it out on my own, but it hasn't been easy.

I understand some crazy parents will go overboard with this knowledge, but the rest of us normal folks would love to have a basic understanding. (Can you imagine watching a football game for the very first time without a scoreboard? Sometimes I feel that is what it feels like watching cheer since some EPs still don't release scores or do so a week after a competition. That is just crazy to me.)

Having more overall knowledge of the sport would help so much more than it would hurt.

 

[topxofxmyxgame]

[quote="I just feel like some gyms will stack one team and in fear of losing athletes make other worlds teams. Id personally win a major national championship in restricted 5 than make it to worlds prelims.[/quote]

I agree with you 100 million percent. The horribly difficult task is getting the athlete and parent to believe this philosophy. Unfortunately most don't see the logic behind making such a decision because they are rapped up in emotion often leading to blaming everyone else as to why they aren't suitable for a particular team or even why a change has to be made in a particular time frame.

Now I may or may not be the individual being referred to in regard to the original post and I'm fine with that if I am lol. If so never did I state or intend to say "Oh well it's only October" lol because anyone that knows me knows that is definitely not even close to how I think. However I can say that some gym owners aren't comfortable at making these really difficult decisions specifically because of fear in losing athletes. In my mind why would anyone want to be on a team that they don't belong on and don't contribute much to? Like how fun much is that really? In my experience 99.9% of kids at small and large gyms want to be on a worlds team even when their skills aren't suitable for the team. The difference is that large gyms have the luxury of immediately saying no and if a kid quits it's ok because it doesn't affect them as much economically. Some small gyms attempt giving the opportunity in the beginning hoping that the athlete will step up to the plate and later when they realize the athlete should move they often don't because the athlete and parent will refuse to go to another team that is more suitable for their skills. Pride almost always gets in the way lol.

It's sad but very very true. I know I can't be the only one who has witnessed this take place. It's incredibly hard to make these decisions when the gym down the street with put that same athlete on their worlds team when you've told the athlete they should be restricted 5 or senior 4. They often don't even care how good the team is they simply think they're above it.

 

[cupieqt]

THIS!!!!

I so wish there was more education for the parents! I don't know why it seems gyms/owners/coaches I have seen want to keep the scoring a mystery.

It would be awesome to have the coaches review scoresheets with parents and athletes. I have been trying to read up and figure it out on my own, but it hasn't been easy.

I understand some crazy parents will go overboard with this knowledge, but the rest of us normal folks would love to have a basic understanding. (Can you imagine watching a football game for the very first time without a scoreboard? Sometimes I feel that is what it feels like watching cheer since some EPs still don't release scores or do so a week after a competition. That is just crazy to me.)

Having more overall knowledge of the sport would help so much more than it would hurt.

Before we compete I explain to the parents what they can expect on how their team will be scored and what the scoresheets call for in terms of levels etc.
After each competition, we go over the scoresheets with the kids and their parents and talk about what we did well and what we need to improve on.
I think it helps a lot! And I always have more parents at practice on those nights so I know they are interested in how it all works. I also send a scoring recap email for those that can't attend.

I prefer having educated parents. It is just overall better for everyone to be in the know about how it all works. And it keeps them from assuming and speculating and coming up with wild theories about placements.

 

[megaroo714]

My gym has had level 5 teams in the past that were very successful. We came 11th in the world in 2006 i believe it was. The last time we had a level 5 team was 2009 and they made it worlds and they did good.. last year only one girl on our team had a full so we went level 4 again and had an amazing year. At the beginning of this season a lot of girls got there fulls so our coach sat us and are parents all down and said " here's the deal we can ether be level 4 another year and have a great year and be very successful or we can take the challenge go level 5 not win everywhere we go and try and make worlds maybe we will and maybe we wont" We all agreed that we wanted to take the challenge and be level 5 we know that we are good in level 4 so its time to up a level. its kinda like stingrays orange they knew they were good in small and could win so they went medium. We may not have as many fulls or doubles as ssx or greenbay elite and we know that but were using this year as a test to see what we have to do and what its gonna take to be a successful level 5 team. so yeah we are the team that your talking about that probably should not be level 5 because we don't have tons of fulls but we have 4/18 girls that don't do triple toe backs so were good in that section and were good in stunting.

 

[CheerBank]

Before we compete I explain to the parents what they can expect on how their team will be scored and what the scoresheets call for in terms of levels etc.
After each competition, we go over the scoresheets with the kids and their parents and talk about what we did well and what we need to improve on.
I think it helps a lot! And I always have more parents at practice on those nights so I know they are interested in how it all works. I also send a scoring recap email for those that can't attend.

I prefer having educated parents. It is just overall better for everyone to be in the know about how it all works. And it keeps them from assuming and speculating and coming up with wild theories about placements.

I wish all coaches did this. It would make so many things easier.

 

[CheerBank]

My gym has had level 5 teams in the past that were very successful. We came 11th in the world in 2006 i believe it was. The last time we had a level 5 team was 2009 and they made it worlds and they did good.. last year only one girl on our team had a full so we went level 4 again and had an amazing year. At the beginning of this season a lot of girls got there fulls so our coach sat us and are parents all down and said " here's the deal we can ether be level 4 another year and have a great year and be very successful or we can take the challenge go level 5 not win everywhere we go and try and make worlds maybe we will and maybe we wont" We all agreed that we wanted to take the challenge and be level 5 we know that we are good in level 4 so its time to up a level. its kinda like stingrays orange they knew they were good in small and could win so they went medium. We may not have as many fulls or doubles as ssx or greenbay elite and we know that but were using this year as a test to see what we have to do and what its gonna take to be a successful level 5 team. so yeah we are the team that your talking about that probably should not be level 5 because we don't have tons of fulls but we have 4/18 girls that don't do triple toe backs so were good in that section and were good in stunting.

Imho there is a big difference in what you are talking about - when as a team you have decided to push yourselves and move up a level knowing that it is going to be a challenging season, and I give your team many props for that - as opposed to a gym deciding they are going to have a level 5 team because they have 4 kids with fulls and can hit some level 5 stunts just for the sake of saying they have a level 5 team. Wishing you a successful season!

 

[cupieqt]

Imho there is a big difference in what you are talking about - when as a team you have decided to push yourselves and move up a level knowing that it is going to be a challenging season, and I give your team many props for that - as opposed to a gym deciding they are going to have a level 5 team because they have 4 kids with fulls and can hit some level 5 stunts just for the sake of saying they have a level 5 team. Wishing you a successful season!

Basically, if the major majority of the team has level 5 tumbling skills and can hit some difficult level 5 stunts then it's really nbd. It's definitely those teams that have only a small handful of kids (way less than majority) with only some level 5 skills that are totally out of their league that causes issues with people.

 

[5-6-7-8]

Before we compete I explain to the parents what they can expect on how their team will be scored and what the scoresheets call for in terms of levels etc.
After each competition, we go over the scoresheets with the kids and their parents and talk about what we did well and what we need to improve on.
I think it helps a lot! And I always have more parents at practice on those nights so I know they are interested in how it all works. I also send a scoring recap email for those that can't attend.

I prefer having educated parents. It is just overall better for everyone to be in the know about how it all works. And it keeps them from assuming and speculating and coming up with wild theories about placements.

Can you be CPs coach?? ;)

Seriously, if our coaches did this, my reaction would be not unlike the Senior Elite showcase reaction. :)

 

[notimeforthat]

I remember when I was a newbie cheer mom and I had no idea about levels, score sheets or divisions. I remember sitting next to another mom at competitions and asking "Are they against us?" I couldn't even figure that out.
When our team did well and had no obvious errors and placed not where we wanted them to we always were at a loss to know what to think.
I remember asking the coaches why we didn't place higher and them looking at me and saying xyz team did blah blah blah and we only did blah blah. They may as well have been talking a foreign language because it still made no sense to me.
Thats when I decided to research and find out things on my own.
Many years later I am the parent that can pretty much sum up a routine and know where they are strong and where they are weak. But it was not from learning anything from my CPs gym!!!