All-Star Themed Practice Controversy

[Official OWECheer]

Can someone explain how the first theme, "gangbangers" or "thugs" (or whatever it was) is offensive because it is about race... But Chola isn't? Chola actually IS a direct inference to a race. I'm not at all sure how Chola is an OK theme.

And I guess since we're all being super offensive (and yes, I do mean ALL), I'll go: If the word "thug" and "gang" instantly conjures up a specific race in your head, that says way more about you than the person using the word.

Food for thought - racism is not actually defined as "white people offending black people."

I can't say (since I'm not Latina), but I would like to know what a Latino/Latina thinks about this.

 

[TealShades]

I've just been lurking this whole time, but since you brought up that thread I'll give my input. In the blood diamond thread a lot of people were wondering why I was so offended over teams with the name "Indians" or tribe names. It honestly has nothing to do with the fact that I am native - I was not raised in a native community, the only part of that culture I've really had any exposure to would be dream catchers and the music. I was shocked over those names because the country would be in uproar if someone named their team any other racial slur. I've experienced racism and I'm a "white girl" living in eastern Canada, not sure how many of you are familiar with "Africville" but this summer me and my boyfriend decided the get an apartment together and that's where one was and when I emailed the landlord about a viewing he told me no, because I was white. It was a beautiful apartment, in our budget and a great location, but because of my skin color he wouldn't give me a chance.

Also, this weekend it was "buskers fest" downtown, and one of the performers was a black man. Part of his show was to bring a "black girl, white girl, Mexican girl, and Asian girl" up onto the stage and he demonstrated how each culture dances. I feel like that was extremely racist. After the show he said he's not a racist guy but it's all comedy. I don't think that makes any difference, it was just wrong.

I'm actually native too but in the US. To be honest I never am offended by tribe names for team names. But yes others in my tribe and elsewhere maybe offended. I'm full blooded. Grew up in my community and know pretty much most of my culture. Still learning stuff.

 

[Paria]

My university in our city accidentally made the mistake of cowboys and Indians.. They had to take culture classes and apologize....

Your post reminded me of my sophomore year of high school when I was on my school cheer team. It's tradition for the team to dress up in the same costume for Halloween every year during the school day. I'm not sure who was in charge of picking our costume but it ended up being Indians/Native Americans and it was NOT received well by other students. In the later half of the school day, when some of the cheerleaders walked into their classes, there were notes left on their desks from other students who had the class before them, saying how they thought the costume was offensive.
The next year, they were ballerinas.

 

[arispurplecheerkitty]

Your post reminded me of my sophomore year of high school when I was on my school cheer team. It's tradition for the team to dress up in the same costume for Halloween every year during the school day. I'm not sure who was in charge of picking our costume but it ended up being Indians/Native Americans and it was NOT received well by other students. In the later half of the school day, when some of the cheerleaders walked into their classes, there were notes left on their desks from other students who had the class before them, saying how they thought the costume was offensive.
The next year, they were ballerinas.

That's actually kind of sad. They obviously didn't mean to offend anyone. Smh.

 

[AlwaysLearning]

Can someone explain how the first theme, "gangbangers" or "thugs" (or whatever it was) is offensive because it is about race... But Chola isn't? Chola actually IS a direct inference to a race. I'm not at all sure how Chola is an OK theme.

And I guess since we're all being super offensive (and yes, I do mean ALL), I'll go: If the word "thug" and "gang" instantly conjures up a specific race in your head, that says way more about you than the person using the word.

Food for thought - racism is not actually defined as "white people offending black people."

I can't say (since I'm not Latina), but I would like to know what a Latino/Latina thinks about this.

I guess I'll chime in now & try to explain it... lol

To me, the Cholo/Chola theme isn't any better of a "theme" than gangbanger. They're both stupid. Stick to the '80's theme and watch the parents be horrifically reminded of how horrible the fashion was back then.

I'm Mexican & grew up just outside LA in a city where there were more Mexicans than whites. I also went to school with 2 black kids & a handful of Asians. In LA, Blacks, Asians, Mexicans, etc generally live among their own race so, as a kid, my exposure to other races was limited. I don't think of gangbanger or thug as a racist term. To me it's a term to describe someone who lives a life surrounded by violence, stealing, and drugs. It's an insult because you are saying that person is a criminal.

When I see the picture or hear the terms gangbanger/thug I automatically think Mexican because, growing up, all of the gangbangers/thugs I knew were Mexican & several were friends of mine - though not close friends. I don't think it makes me racist or a bad person or says anything about me as a person except that I grew up among Mexicans & Mexican gang members. One girl in particular could be a real mean girl, but she protected those she liked so I made sure she liked me. (I preferred to not get randomly called to the park to fight & she made sure no one called me unless they wanted to fight her first). We just reunited on fb & she apologized for how awful she was to people back then (she was the worst offender to call people to the park). So, when I hear those terms I actually see her face in my head.

Cholo/Chola is kind of the Mexican version of trailer trash. Yes, it is a racial term because it only applies to Mexicans, but we don't see it as a racial slur. It's more of an attack on our character than our race. If you were to call me a Chola it would be offensive because you're saying you think I'm a lowlife, criminal, &/or trash. Not all Mexicans are Cholas & not all Cholas are gangbangers. They can also be the people who hang out with them, but aren't actually a part of the bad activities. It is offensive for a white girl to dress up as a Chola because she's making fun of their lifestyle. Remember in Grease when Rizzo made fun of Sandy for being so preppy & innocent? Reverse the roles & it's the same type of thing. A Chola themed practice today is probably no different than having a Pink Ladies themed practice back in the 50's.

It's hard to explain, but I hope I explained it well enough.


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[Just-a-Mom]

When I see the picture or hear the terms gangbanger/thug I automatically think Mexican because, growing up, all of the gangbangers/thugs I knew were Mexican & several were friends of mine - though not close friends. I don't think it makes me racist or a bad person or says anything about me as a person except that I grew up among Mexicans & Mexican gang members.
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I'll just touch on this part, because I'm running out the door to work...

That was my point. I didn't say it made someone racist or a bad person. I just said it says more about them than the person talking.

In your case, the words gangbanger and thug bring up images of Mexicans, based on your personal history. In my case, I immediately think "Latin Kings" - because that is the gang I see every day of my life. When I hear "gangster," I think Russian - again, based on MY OWN experiences. Others apparently hear those words and think "black." My point is - gangbanger and thug are not exactly racial terms. They mean something different to everyone (usually based on where you are or are from) - and I think like @Cheermom1969 said it's much more of someone downing a lifestyle than a race.

I'm sorry - I don't care one whit if people want to make fun of gangs. If you're in a gang, I think you're a loser, plain and simple. So I'm not really interested in protecting the rights of gangbangers.

My thoughts: if someone saw that picture and thought, "they're making fun of black people!" - well, like I said, why did you (general you, not you @AlwaysLearning ) immediately think "black people" when you saw that? Your own beliefs about race, that's why. Because I saw the picture and thought Latino and white (I haven't seen a black gangbanger in God knows how long... But I see white ones and Latino ones every single day), @AlwaysLearning sees the picture and thinks Mexican. All of that tells me way more about the people on the receiving end, than the girls in the picture. Doesn't necessarily tell me anything bad, just different. Because for real, I opened this thread and was like, "Wait... What? What does this picture have to do with black people?" And was legitimately confused for 3 pages.

If the theme was "Mexican Day" and they all dressed like they were in a gang, that would be offensive - because they'd be saying "Mexican people are all in gangs." If the theme was "African American Day" and they all dressed like gangbangers, same - you get the idea.

All black people are not gangbangers, and (this is the key part) all gangbangers ARE NOT black. So, when I hear someone say that the words are offensive to them because they're making fun of black people, I ask why they immediately associate all gangs with being black - because I sure don't.

I am sure this is confusing, sorry.

 

[AlwaysLearning]

@Just-a-Mom I think we are on the same page. I didn't take your comment as "I'm a bad person for thinking that way". I think it says everything about my experiences. I just explained my experiences so one could understand why I drew that conclusion.

You've said it perfectly. It isn't about race, but how we perceive the pic or term. I saw the pic and thought drugs & violence first not white, black, Mexican, etc.

Have a good day at work!

 

[12stepCheermom]

There are Themes that are not positive such as Thugs - I do not understand the point of doing this, but looking at that picture and some of the other pictures - when they are subject to misinterpretation and so ambiguous then it is not offensive - Thugs at one time, did not screamed Lower class Blacks or Hispanics; my understanding of Thug's Life is supposed to represent someone who is streetwise, hustlers and someone who working hard to rise above their adversity... But over the years, it has become something that is derogative...:

Funny Story: Last Halloween, the gym allowed the athletes, coaches and all the staff to dress in costumes... It was so funny, because unknowingly, more than half of the gym came in dressed as Nerds - The Coaches came in dressed like 70's-80's nerds, like from the movie "Revenge of the Nerds", the older teenagers came in looking like the Bill Gates, Silicon Valley, PeeWee Herman l, with the suspenders, high waisted shorts and clashing multi-colors and prints and the younger people came in looking like the characters from Big Bang Theory. The commonality between all the nerds were the hard-rimmed glasses with the tape around the nose area. Nerds in my opinion is a life style and does not scream race and/or anything derogatory, so everybody had fun with this...

Really? Because every year our student council chose a "nerd day" for spirit week I got phone calls from parents saying it was irresponsible to make fun of the smart kids since they already aren't in the "cool" crowd because they're smart....and we should be celebrating smart kids not making fun of them.

Of course they tended to forget it was basically the valedictorian and junior Marshall's that picked the themes so THEY obviously didn't see it that way.

People (some, not all) will find reason to take offense at basically anything.


Contemplating witty signatures since 2011

 

[Just-a-Mom]

You know Cheermom1969, it could be the hypersensitivity comes out in me based on my life experiences... I grew up in the Deep South in the early 60's, during the Civil Rights Movement

Ok. I slept on this, and decided I'm going to go ahead and say it. This would make you 60+ years old (I'm 41 and born in 1973 - if you "grew up" in the early 60's, that would mean you were born in the early 1950s.)

If you are, that's fine. But considering we just spent the better part of a week having a public outcry, shaming some girl into apologizing for saying she was on a cheerleading team that she wasn't, based on the fact that she can't claim that because she "didn't do the work and suffer like the actual athletes did" - I really think people shouldn't be claiming anything they didn't personally do.

***this is not to say that I think you didn't witness things, and that I think you didn't suffer racism growing up in the south... Just saying that I think saying you grew up in the "early 60's" was a bit of a misrepresentation for dramatic effect. Not cool

 

[njallday]

I'll just touch on this part, because I'm running out the door to work...

That was my point. I didn't say it made someone racist or a bad person. I just said it says more about them than the person talking.

In your case, the words gangbanger and thug bring up images of Mexicans, based on your personal history. In my case, I immediately think "Latin Kings" - because that is the gang I see every day of my life. When I hear "gangster," I think Russian - again, based on MY OWN experiences. Others apparently hear those words and think "black." My point is - gangbanger and thug are not exactly racial terms. They mean something different to everyone (usually based on where you are or are from) - and I think like @Cheermom1969 said it's much more of someone downing a lifestyle than a race.

I'm sorry - I don't care one whit if people want to make fun of gangs. If you're in a gang, I think you're a loser, plain and simple. So I'm not really interested in protecting the rights of gangbangers.

My thoughts: if someone saw that picture and thought, "they're making fun of black people!" - well, like I said, why did you (general you, not you @AlwaysLearning ) immediately think "black people" when you saw that? Your own beliefs about race, that's why. Because I saw the picture and thought Latino and white (I haven't seen a black gangbanger in God knows how long... But I see white ones and Latino ones every single day), @AlwaysLearning sees the picture and thinks Mexican. All of that tells me way more about the people on the receiving end, than the girls in the picture. Doesn't necessarily tell me anything bad, just different. Because for real, I opened this thread and was like, "Wait... What? What does this picture have to do with black people?" And was legitimately confused for 3 pages.

If the theme was "Mexican Day" and they all dressed like they were in a gang, that would be offensive - because they'd be saying "Mexican people are all in gangs." If the theme was "African American Day" and they all dressed like gangbangers, same - you get the idea.

All black people are not gangbangers, and (this is the key part) all gangbangers ARE NOT black. So, when I hear someone say that the words are offensive to them because they're making fun of black people, I ask why they immediately associate all gangs with being black - because I sure don't.

I am sure this is confusing, sorry.

Amen. I've seen and met more gangsters and mobsters in the jewish and italian communities than any minority. i know jewish men working in the diamond district of NYC doing some mafia-like dealings/smuggling. i used to babysit kids growing up whose uncle was killed by a hit man and involved in an Italian mafia of sorts. i've seen more "Accidental" deaths (that clearly were no accident) than i can count on two hands. I'd associate gangster with that before i'd ever choose a minority because of my life experiences. welcome to new jersey :p

ill say what i said in my previous post again - no one can ever understand a struggle they have not lived. i can't assume to know what it feels like to live anyone's struggling or suffering other than my own/my family's. if i am offended, the best i can do is educate the person and hopefully give them some insight as to why they are being hurtful. i also shouldn't take it to heart if they do say something offensive. the end.


side note, true story: yesterday one of my professors was taking attendance and for some reason decided to call out my entire first, middle, and last name. she then proceeded to ask if i came from a long line of short-tempered, alcoholics. i am quiet, patient, introverted and do not drink. my family goes to mass on St. Patrick's day while the rest of the non-irish world is getting $h!tfaced eating things saturated in green food coloring. thanks for the stereotyping though. :rolleyes:

 

[ErinS]

Amen. I've seen and met more gangsters and mobsters in the jewish and italian communities than any minority. i know jewish men working in the diamond district of NYC doing some mafia-like dealings/smuggling. i used to babysit kids growing up whose uncle was killed by a hit man and involved in an Italian mafia of sorts. i've seen more "Accidental" deaths (that clearly were no accident) than i can count on two hands. I'd associate gangster with that before i'd ever choose a minority because of my life experiences. welcome to new jersey :p

Its clearly a regional thing. When someone says gangster to me I don't think of mobsters. I can't for sure say that I've ever met mobsters....but I have met actual gang members (bloods, crips and local "project" gang members since they went to my high school) so when people say gangster....that is what my mind is drawn to.

Someone pointed out in the Smoed picture there is only one person dressed like a "thug" (or something in similar words) and its the girl dressed in a long white t shirt and long shorts. I could be wrong, but isn't that girl the transplant from North Carolina. The caption of the picture also says "Thugs" and not "Cholas" (which to some is an ethnic slur to begin with so I don't know why it would be okay to use) and is from Tonya Rice..and from what I know of her shes affiliated with the South...the Atlanta area. So to me this just shows that we have regional representations of what "gangsters" are... We are not going to have the same definitions of gangsters.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

S.

 

[Pebbles49]

Ok. I slept on this, and decided I'm going to go ahead and say it. This would make you 60+ years old (I'm 41 and born in 1973 - if you "grew up" in the early 60's, that would mean you were born in the early 1950s.)

If you are, that's fine. But considering we just spent the better part of a week having a public outcry, shaming some girl into apologizing for saying she was on a cheerleading team that she wasn't, based on the fact that she can't claim that because she "didn't do the work and suffer like the actual athletes did" - I really think people shouldn't be claiming anything they didn't personally do.

***this is not to say that I think you didn't witness things, and that I think you didn't suffer racism growing up in the south... Just saying that I think saying you grew up in the "early 60's" was a bit of a misrepresentation for dramatic effect. Not cool

I need to respond to you on this issue because I will never exploit an incident for sympathy... I was born in 1963, and this incident happened in 1968. The area where I grew up a lot of Civil Rights Movement activity were happening and reached it highest point during that time... Hey, you caught me, I lied about my age, I am actually 51 and I grew up during the mid 1960s in the Deep South, sorry for misleading anyone...

PS: I am really sorry for even talking about that ugly chapter in my family's history, I hope you Fierceboarders will not get offended, if I wish to not answer any more questions about this... There were things that happened I heard, that was a lot worse for some families around us... According to my Mom, we were lucky that we had the means to move away...

 

[mamabear]

I really do not like FB in the summer time. I hate seeing things get so heated.

That said, after hearing some of the descriptions of yourselves, I drastically have to readjust how I imagine some of you look :) (note to self, I really need to start meeting people!)

Regarding the original topic, I am surprised that none of my fellow Jerseyians brought up a similar case that rocked two of the best wrestling teams in our state. Right before state championships, Phillipsburg decided to pose for a picture to intimidate the other team. Two of the kids in the picture, put hoodies on, but it looked like they also made the top of the hoods pointed. Another put a noose around the wrestling dummy's head. Using this imagery was deplorable, but it was even worse when you realized that the opposing team was mostly black. The picture was taken on school grounds, under the coach's eye and posted on social media. Outcry happened, resulting in kids being banned from the championship meet, causing a few to loose their scholarships. They also were suspended from school and were investigated by the state's prosecutor for hate crimes. We will never know if the team posed for this with hate in their hearts or if it was just done carelessly in the midst of an athletic rivalry, but the consequences were real.

I wonder where the gym's coaches and owners were when this theme was chosen.

@njallday - I can't believe that your professor said that! Omg!

 

[cheerKT]

Can someone explain how the first theme, "gangbangers" or "thugs" (or whatever it was) is offensive because it is about race... But Chola isn't? Chola actually IS a direct inference to a race. I'm not at all sure how Chola is an OK theme.

And I guess since we're all being super offensive (and yes, I do mean ALL), I'll go: If the word "thug" and "gang" instantly conjures up a specific race in your head, that says way more about you than the person using the word.

Food for thought - racism is not actually defined as "white people offending black people."

I wish I could shimmy this more than once.