All-Star Too Many Boys On The Floor

[yojaehs]

@RulesGuy I would also like to add, since the whole reason that Int divisions are limited to only 3 teams per country to advance to finals in hopes of allowing other countries to win. Now that Int Coed and All-Girl 6 have countries other than the US taking home globes can we NOW get 50% to advance to finals instead of this garbage 3 teams!?

 

[kobegirl]

Just commenting on the tumbling... I competed at worlds in all girl 6 last year. The international 6 score sheet is heavily carried by stunting. We threw 20 fulls...and it just didn't matter. I BELIEVE it was like 15% of the scoresheet. Apparently, the USA has an advantage in tumbling..and they were attempting to even out the playing field. Don't agree with it. And believe me...I most definitely did not agree with this last year when I was in the middle of it. Tumbling is equally important in the sport. It shouldn't be minimized to make it "fair". But just my opinion.

I understand that the score sheet doesn't emphasize tumbling, but if you can't max out on tumbling, then you shouldn't have the numbers to be able to be in first place. Also, do you REALLY think that Bangkok maxed out on stunting? I'd love to see that score sheet...

Oh, and forgot about that assisted standing tuck. Great job judges! :rolleyes:

 

[socratesofcheer]

This may be unpopular, but, it wouldn't be the first time I was unpopular.

@RulesGuy is holding the company line. He has to. For that I give him credit.

I'm quite certain that this situation was dictated from above. I would venture to guess that Jim Chadwick is the one to blame for this fiasco.

 

[cheerinfo]

This may be unpopular, but, it wouldn't be the first time I was unpopular.

@RulesGuy is holding the company line. He has to. For that I give him credit.

I'm quite certain that this situation was dictated from above. I would venture to guess that Jim Chadwick is the one to blame for this fiasco.

I tend to agree. I am not BLAMING Les, per se, but since he is the spokesperson so to speak, I feel he can take our questions and get them answered. Fact is, this is kind of a mess and could be a black eye for the USASF/IASF if not handled properly. No one wants to see that. I want this event to continue to flourish and improve. To do that, things like this need immediate attention and appropriate action to resolve it.

 

[Mom Jeans]

@RulesGuy I would also like to add, since the whole reason that Int divisions are limited to only 3 teams per country to advance to finals in hopes of allowing other countries to win. Now that Int Coed and All-Girl 6 have countries other than the US taking home globes can we NOW get 50% to advance to finals instead of this garbage 3 teams!?

Please make this happen, I didn't see any reason why this rule should still be in effect. I saw International teams who were clearly better than many US Teams, no breaks are given to teams in the US who have no talent pool and besides a few states, this happens a lot. But that's okay, not everyone can be nor should be a winner.

 

[tntdynomite]

I only got to page 5 so far, so forgive me if this has already been posted.
Bangkok is wrong. Rules are rules.
BUT...If King has been emailing the USASF and pointing this out for YEARS then they are wrong too. Forget correcting the problem after these international teams got to Worlds, they could have made it clear way before that because they knew it was something that has come up in the past, and at least one person has noticed. I believe a lot of the blame should fall on the USASF also. For as many people that are trying to come up with an excuse for Bangkok (language barrier, etc.), what is the excuse for the USASF??? None as far as I can see.

 

[xotumble3xo]

SUNDAY
Thailand shows up for their warm-ups for prelims and is ready to cut their number of males down to 12 (from 15). As we always do, we had USASF safety judges in the warm up area to help catch legality violations.

Seems odd that they waited for warm-ups to remove the extra boys..... did they really plan to rework the whole routine in 10 minutes?

 

[ROCKnROLLS]

I thank you for a reply of some sort. I don't believe it answers all the questions but at least clears up WHY there too many boys on the floor. I still believe they broke too many other rules. I also think that in the future you need to get some more qualified safety officials bc I along with anyone else on this board could have told you at the beginning of the the 2010/2011 season that 12 boys was the absolute most allowed on the floor, but that's your story, enjoy sticking to it.

Thank you for the reponse. Being "The RESPECTFUL and GRACIUOS "people" that we are" we understand your sincere compassion trying to handle the situation. However, these threads expose a real problem in the stereotyping and cultural bias that exists. Rules and scoring should be the same for everyone whether you come from Bangkok Thailand, Tokyo Japan, or Perryopolis Pennsylvania. Score sheets don't have columns for compassion, empathy, or sympathy nor should they. It is unjust to keep trying to "level the playing field", that's what division levels and grids are for, besides the last time i checked the Blue competition spring floor was already Level.

 

[5-6-7-8]

The whole scenario just makes me sad.

And there were other teams competing with more than 12 boys, no? How were they handled? Did they get the same deduction as Thailand?

 

[ROCKnROLLS]

@RulesGuy I would also like to add, since the whole reason that Int divisions are limited to only 3 teams per country to advance to finals in hopes of allowing other countries to win. Now that Int Coed and All-Girl 6 have countries other than the US taking home globes can we NOW get 50% to advance to finals instead of this garbage 3 teams!?

Agreed! It's time to STOP the "Affirmative Action approach" to finals.

 

[kisscheer18]

so then you're saying "give them a break" .Then there's no consequence for breaking the rules, which if done with awareness is CHEATING, without awareness is still breaking the rules! I'm sorry but none of my teams were given "a break" nor do they seek one, only justice.

read the rest of the conversation.

 

[CheerMomNTx]

What really gets me is that these coaches putting together these international teams are going over the rules with a fine tooth comb to make sure they are not penalized and are doing everything by the book. Shouldn't all Reps/Judges, etc. of the USASF be doing the same? Shouldn't they know these rules like the back of their hand? If the Bangkok team was getting ready to pull off their extra guys, then to me that means they were aware of the rules! Bangkok teams knew the rules better than the USASF safety judge??? That just doesn't sound right to me. :confused:

 

[ztaprincess]

I still do not understand how their pyramids would have given them a high enough score over Gym Tyme (there is only so many points you can get) that they received deductions per extra athlete AND had illegal elements to their routine and still tied? Sorry but until the scores and breakdowns are posted this will NEVER make sense. They had amazing pyramids, but you can only score so high in that section of the scoresheet and there is no way their tumbling was scored as high as GT and personally I dontt see how theirs stunts can be as high either. On top of that they were given deductions for extra athletes, how many points was that? I believe after their Nations Cup on Sunday morning they were only ahead of Gym Tyme by 5 or 6 points. If they had LEGALITY deductions on top of deductions per athlete there really should not be a way that they still tied with Gym Tyme, who hit their routine better in Finals.

The extra boy thing still bothers me, but there isn't much I can do about that since it was one big mess up, or at least that is what they say. I still though do not understand why they waited until warm ups to remove athletes. Were the other countries with extra athletes waiting until warm ups too an were told to keep them? If 95% of the teams in these divisions knew you could not have more then 12 boys that right there tells you that it was the TEAMS mistake for not knowing the rules. It might also be smart to have workers who KNOW the rules ahead of time instead of having to look everything up in a book.

 

[GDaddyLS]

Here is the International Open coed 6 score sheet per the USASF website...

http://usasf.net.ismmedia.com/ISM2//Worlds Documents /Worlds_2011_Coed_L6_International_Division.pdf

 

[ztaprincess]

Going by that scoresheet it still does not make sense how it came out as a tie. If you look at the videos overall it should have come out possibly pretty close without the deductions that Bangkok should have received. With those deductions I don't see how it is possible that they stayed in first place. Gym Tyme should have been ahead in the tumbling section and possibly in stunts (IMO) and their pyramids should not have scored that much higher since Gym Tyme included all the elements needed to max the score out. Add in the deductions and it just doesn't make sense. It seems to me like the deductions for extra athletes were either very minimal or there was no deductions for their illegal elements in the routine.