All-Star Trending Towards "mega-gyms"

[SparkleSpankies]

We weren't going to create a worlds team to get demolished by others.

LOVE THIS. When gyms do not properly progress and then pull together a worlds team for the sake of saying your gym has a level 5 worlds team and then said gyms go out there and just get slammed b/c out of 20 7 are "worlds level" athletes, it's just not worth it. It makes sense if there is a gym in some range to you to see if it is a better fit.

 

[BlueCat]

I'm going to have to wholeheartedly disagree with this. We're not talking about people changing gyms to go down the street (even down the street 2-3 hours). We're talking about hopping on a plane or packing up the moving van. No one, and I mean NO ONE, is moving to another state simply because their gym isn't making them happy - or because your gym is fun (although I have no doubt it's fun, I just doubt anyone is flying there for fun). They're ring chasing. Plain and simple. No one is flying over 758 other gyms that would be just as lovely and pleasant just because they think it will be really nice at mega gym. It has nothing to do with mega gym making promises - I think 90% of the time mega gym makes no promises. Its more the thought of "I want a ring. My gym has globed at Worlds....never. Mega gym globes every year. If I want a ring, I need to be somewhere where chances are high I'll be on a team that wins rings." People fly to Orlando amd Cancun for fun. They fly to Plano and Kernersville for rings.

The people who fly-in or move specifically for cheer are a very small minority of the athletes. They are also a small percentage of the athletes we get from other programs. The fly-ins get an inordinate amount of attention, but they really are few and far between. Off the top of my head, you are talking about less than 1% of our athletes.

I am certainly not saying that ring-chasing isn't out there, my point was that MOST of the athletes moving programs aren't simply doing it to increase their odds of getting a ring. My overall point is that rather than just ASSUME that athletes are leaving your gym simply because another gym has a higher winning percentage, I would try to find out the actual reasons.

 

[xpressjag]

Part of the reason people leave is due to the amount of attention large gyms get. We're at at the point where some gyms are so "cheer famous" that at a small gym has to work 10 times harder to even be recognized before you hit the floor. That's why there are so many mergers with big name gyms. Glory,attention, and the winning image

 

[Just-a-Mom]

The people who fly-in or move specifically for cheer are a very small minority of the athletes. They are also a small percentage of the athletes we get from other programs. The fly-ins get an inordinate amount of attention, but they really are few and far between. Off the top of my head, you are talking about less than 1% of our athletes.

I am certainly not saying that ring-chasing isn't out there, my point was that MOST of the athletes moving programs aren't simply doing it to increase their odds of getting a ring. My overall point is that rather than just ASSUME that athletes are leaving your gym simply because another gym has a higher winning percentage, I would try to find out the actual reasons.

Oh I agree 100% with that! I think the thread was originally started because the number of fly ins and people moving seems to be growing, although I agree it's still a very small percentage. Im just absolutely jaw on the floor about people moving their home, careers, and families for someone to cheer - and even more so about people FLYING to cheer practice (no more so than I've always been...I just can't wrap my head around it).

But for sure I'd agree that 99% of people just switching to a lot of the big gyms are going because of other things besides worlds. It's when the airport is involved that I get all :eek: :eek: :eek:

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[quitthedrama]

Oh I agree 100% with that! I think the thread was originally started because the number of fly ins and people moving seems to be growing, although I agree it's still a very small percentage. The Fierce Board App! || iPhone || Android || Upgrade Your Account!

Thank you - I started the thread, and it was more about people leaving gyms to go to the "big name gyms" and the talent pool becoming very skewed making it harder for a "regular" gym to be competitive at the National and Worlds level, hence the idea for two separate divisions in the small all girl and small coed if the trend continues to grow. It wasn't meant to discuss why they were leaving or what transportation they use, but perhaps I didn't communicate it that way!:oops:

 

[gymcatmomx2]

Thank you - I started the thread, and it was more about people leaving gyms to go to the "big name gyms" and the talent pool becoming very skewed making it harder for a "regular" gym to be competitive at the National and Worlds level, hence the idea for two separate divisions in the small all girl and small coed if the trend continues to grow. It wasn't meant to discuss why they were leaving or what transportation they use, but perhaps I didn't communicate it that way!:oops:

I agree completely that there needs to be separate divisions for Worlds. There are separate divisions at NCA College Nationals, high school sports have 1A-5A divisions depending on student population (in Texas at least) and NCAA is also separated by divisions:

"Division I (D-I) is the highest level of intercollegiate athletics sanctioned by the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) in the United States. D-I schools include the major collegiate athletic powers, with larger budgets, more elaborate facilities, and more athletic scholarships than Divisions II and III".

IMO, the NCAA D-1 division describes the "mega-gyms" in the all-star cheer industry. How we determine the divisions is beyond my scope of knowledge. And for any arguments about "not everyone can be a winner" and "the best should compete against the best" should tell that to NCAA and the state of Texas.

 

[AndrewSky]

I'm probably going to get eaten alive here for saying this, but there are two divisions in level 5.
It's called restricted, where most of the teams that show up to worlds should go. No offense to anyone.
Yes, no one likes losing to the same big name gyms for a reason, but a lot of teams who are "non mega-gyms" are actually stepping up and showing they can compete and earn medals and top five placements.

 

[p.o.k.]

I am in no way saying that the boys should get scholarships and not the girls. However boys are much harder to come by in all stars so I understand the why. I'm not complaining a lot of gyms are starting to offer scholarships regardless of gender based on standing fulls and doubles and I'm ok with that.


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I agree with you there, but I see gyms offering scholarships for any males - any level. I am no militant feminist but at some point it does get frustrating when you know full well a portion of their fees are coming out of your tuition payment. I know it is part of the game my daughter has been competing level 5 for 6 years, with 2 to 3 to go. Value based soley on gender is a hard pill to swallow.

 

[callmecoach]

I'm probably going to get eaten alive here for saying this, but there are two divisions in level 5.
It's called restricted, where most of the teams that show up to worlds should go. No offense to anyone.
Yes, no one likes losing to the same big name gyms for a reason, but a lot of teams who are "non mega-gyms" are actually stepping up and showing they can compete and earn medals and top five placements.

Agree with you that there are plenty of teams that have no business being at Worlds in the first place, divisions or no divisions.

That said, there are tons of solid level 5 teams that still have no chance of getting to top 10 let alone medaling because larger gyms are choosing from pools hundreds of athletes deep and thus create teams that earn the top spots year after year with ease. That's not to say those teams are not rightfully getting the rings/medals every year, but I do think divisions would allow for fairer competition and also give newer and/or smaller gyms a better chance at growing their talent pool and maybe one day ending up in the same division as the aforementioned "mega-gyms."

There was a period of booming growth for all-star cheer in the early 2000s and the gyms who already existed then are reaping the benefits of being ahead of the curve. It's hard now for newer gyms to catch up. Are there some that did? Yes. But anyone who starts a gym now or has in the past few years has a long uphill climb ahead of them before they'll get to the point where they can hang with the big dogs.

IMO, divisions at Worlds would promote growth because it would allow smaller/newer gyms to retain a higher percentage of their home-grown level 5 athletes because there would be a division at Worlds in which they could be truly competitive. As a result, with continued good instruction and business sense they could eventually grow to the point of being in the same division as the big names. Or not. Small gyms could remain small and the division itself would just become more and more competitive, just as the existing divisions have.

I think many people are looking at the possibility of divisions as an excuse to allow JankyCheer Allstars to win a medal and not have to really put in the work. I look at it as allowing gyms who have good, dedicated coaches who create level 5 athletes to retain those athletes and create true Worlds teams because they aren't losing as many kids to the huge gym an hour away, or they aren't held back by factors beyond their control (i.e. population).

In case my long-windedness made it hard to get my point, here it is: I think divisions are a good idea because they would level the playing field and slow the trend of traveling to mega-gyms just to have a chance at a ring.

 

[gymcatmomx2]

Please remember that some gyms have NO desire to be a mega-gym. I can speak for our small gym that is going on its 14th season. Our owner/coach has no plans, nor has she ever had plans on growing bigger than the small gym category. And she has produced several level 5 athletes who have left to be on a Worlds team and have won rings.

 

[The Sixth]

After going back and forth between the CA 2013-2014 and Rumors thread when they were hot topics a couple weeks back, I almost considered posting a thread similar to this.

I alluded to it in a thread previously, I don't even remember where, but I'm wondering, using CA's record turnout as an example, are kids actually shifting to mega gyms? Or is the industry actually growing? I suppose there is no accurate way to measure this because it would require trending data from a large pool of small gyms and large gyms +/- numbers.

Another sub-topic borne out of this thread seems to be building vs buying (not literally) level 5 talent. I'm sure none take the time to track it, but it would be interesting data from mega gyms to see what the level 5 talent ratio is from athletes who "started" in the program to those who didn't. Perhaps using a metric of current 5 athletes that were at least level x before moving to a 5.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

I'm probably going to get eaten alive here for saying this, but there are two divisions in level 5.
It's called restricted, where most of the teams that show up to worlds should go. No offense to anyone.
Yes, no one likes losing to the same big name gyms for a reason, but a lot of teams who are "non mega-gyms" are actually stepping up and showing they can compete and earn medals and top five placements.

I agree, if worlds is broken into D1 and D2 and big and small and this and that then it's like everything else and there will be double the world champions.. are you or aren't you? Mega gym, smaller gym, put it on the mat. Also, I agree that people go and chase worlds bids... and so I completely agree that a lot of them should be restricted. :-)

 

[xpressjag]

Thank you - I started the thread, and it was more about people leaving gyms to go to the "big name gyms" and the talent pool becoming very skewed making it harder for a "regular" gym to be competitive at the National and Worlds level, hence the idea for two separate divisions in the small all girl and small coed if the trend continues to grow. It wasn't meant to discuss why they were leaving or what transportation they use, but perhaps I didn't communicate it that way!:oops:

Other than cheer athletics, top gun and Cali how many programs get fly ins or people who move away? Is the total number of athletes very minimal?

 

[ponderblue22]

Amen. While we are certainly not a "Mega-Gym", it has taken a lot of years and some incredible efforts from hard working talented staff for our program to grow. We have families driving up to three hours one way to be in our program and they are not all level 5. I do understand there are probably some shady things that take place out there, but if every program would focus on how they train, treat and respect their customers maybe this wouldn't be such a problem. It is impossible to make everyone happy, but I believe the truly successful programs certainly make the majority of their customer base happy.

We traveled 2 hours and 45 minutes not to be with a Mega Gym but to be with a perfect fit gym. One athlete was leave 5 and one was not but it was worth the drive for the philosophy of the gym. No wrong choices just personal ones:)

 

[Boo21]

Andrew I agree with you. And if they started doing Division 1 and Division 2 stuff I see this hurting cheer.