All-Star Tumbling Progressions

[tumbleyoda]

It would be if they actually reached a pike position . . . I call them puck outs.

I call them l - ucks (Layout tucks) or L-likes (Layout pikes)

 

[omgitssydthekid]

I don't particularly care where the arms are as long as they are not too wide, even, and in front of their body. I hate when coaches allow an athlete to grab behind the legs. Hello that will never twist.

We aren't allowed to grab our legs. It was hard to get used to when I switched gyms but it looks better!!

 

[kkinsley]

If they weren't taught to grab their butt and thighs in tucks this problem would be almost eliminated.

This drives me mad :mad: From any of our cheerleaders or gymnasts first tumbling lesson they are taught to do fast forward and backward rolls grabbing the top of the shin just below the knee. If you ask any of them why they do this they can tell you its for tucks. Its part of our warm up and no matter if you are just learning a cartwheel or a double back you still do it at the start of each class.
I have also seen a lot of dodgy layouts which leads on to messy twists. I have one girl who does not drive her toes round so it ends up really straight to the hips then the knees are bent to nearly 90 degrees. After the last cheer competition she has decided I am to much of a perfectionist because I won't let her perform it and she watched a lot that where much worse than hers. She isn't that bothered as she knows it will be perfect when she does get to compete it but I do understand it must be a bit frustrating.
I feel a lot of people are rushing the tumbling progressions rather than making sure they have the skills perfected. I can't see how this is good for the sport, or the gyms that do it

 

[Katybugmom]

This drives me mad :mad: From any of our cheerleaders or gymnasts first tumbling lesson they are taught to do fast forward and backward rolls grabbing the top of the shin just below the knee. If you ask any of them why they do this they can tell you its for tucks. Its part of our warm up and no matter if you are just learning a cartwheel or a double back you still do it at the start of each class.
I have also seen a lot of dodgy layouts which leads on to messy twists. I have one girl who does not drive her toes round so it ends up really straight to the hips then the knees are bent to nearly 90 degrees. After the last cheer competition she has decided I am to much of a perfectionist because I won't let her perform it and she watched a lot that where much worse than hers. She isn't that bothered as she knows it will be perfect when she does get to compete it but I do understand it must be a bit frustrating.
I feel a lot of people are rushing the tumbling progressions rather than making sure they have the skills perfected. I can't see how this is good for the sport, or the gyms that do it

My daughter just got her tuck and I had to go back and watch the video over and over to see where she grabs her legs- glad to say she grabs her shins not her butt.

 

[GymCoach]

My daughter just got her tuck and I had to go back and watch the video over and over to see where she grabs her legs- glad to say she grabs her shins not her butt.

Congrats!

 

[GymCoach]

This drives me mad :mad: From any of our cheerleaders or gymnasts first tumbling lesson they are taught to do fast forward and backward rolls grabbing the top of the shin just below the knee. If you ask any of them why they do this they can tell you its for tucks. Its part of our warm up and no matter if you are just learning a cartwheel or a double back you still do it at the start of each class.
I have also seen a lot of dodgy layouts which leads on to messy twists. I have one girl who does not drive her toes round so it ends up really straight to the hips then the knees are bent to nearly 90 degrees. After the last cheer competition she has decided I am to much of a perfectionist because I won't let her perform it and she watched a lot that where much worse than hers. She isn't that bothered as she knows it will be perfect when she does get to compete it but I do understand it must be a bit frustrating.
I feel a lot of people are rushing the tumbling progressions rather than making sure they have the skills perfected. I can't see how this is good for the sport, or the gyms that do it

It is extremely frustrating as a tumbling coach when they go to coach so-n-so who lets them move on and screws up all my hard work. I would rather slow an athlete down and teach it right which in the long run leads to more skills and less injury. There are a lot of coaches who were taught how to spot without being taught the bio-mechanics and physics of skills.

 

[Katybugmom]

It is extremely frustrating as a tumbling coach when they go to coach so-n-so who lets them move on and screws up all my hard work. I would rather slow an athlete down and teach it right which in the long run leads to more skills and less injury. There are a lot of coaches who were taught how to spot without being taught the bio-mechanics and physics of skills.

As a parent, how do you know which coaches are teaching it right? It took my daughter quite awhile to get her tuck but when she does it, it looks effortless.

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

It is extremely frustrating as a tumbling coach when they go to coach so-n-so who lets them move on and screws up all my hard work. I would rather slow an athlete down and teach it right which in the long run leads to more skills and less injury. There are a lot of coaches who were taught how to spot without being taught the bio-mechanics and physics of skills.

I deal with this even with some of my new coaches. They get so excited when a kid gets a back handspring then they want to connect a series. I usually have to calm them down and remind them that tumbling is like crock pot. slow and steady progressions not a microwave. One and done progression.

And yeah, when kids come from other gyms they are working on stuff waaaaay beyond their ability level. It usually takes some persuasion but I can get them to see why it's important to take a few steps back.

 

[GymCoach]

As a parent you have to educate yourself in the proper progressions of tumbling. Your athlete should have enough time to learn a skill, begin to perfect it, and be confident in the skill before moving on. Did they learn ro double bhs before they learned their ro bhs t or a ro t before ro bhs t. These to me are tell tell signs if a coach teaches in progression and is willing to take the time to teach. If an athlete is pushed to hard/quickly they will not have confidence in their ability which will lead to mental blocks, inconsistency, and loss of skills during growth spurts.

Get to know your coaches. What qualifies them to teach your child? Being able to do a skill does not mean they are qualified to teach it. Being a all star cheerleader for 12 years does not qualify you to coach? What credentials do they have? Who taught them to spot? How much training do they have? How long have they been coaching? What do they do to increase their skill level as a coach?

Even though I do not teach team gymnastics anymore I still maintain all of my USAG professional credentials, in addition to my USASF certificated and many others. Here is the dirty little secret of all star cheer the USASF does not require you to show that you know how to spot/teach a skill, just that you can talk your way through it.

So when in doubt ask questions. Get to know your coaches. They are many good qualified coaches out there, but there are also many who just got thrown in the gym because they once were a cheerleader or they were strong enough to learn how to spot.

 

[Katybugmom]

As a parent you have to educate yourself in the proper progressions of tumbling. Your athlete should have enough time to learn a skill, begin to perfect it, and be confident in the skill before moving on. Did they learn ro double bhs before they learned their ro bhs t or a ro t before ro bhs t. These to me are tell tell signs if a coach teaches in progression and is willing to take the time to teach. If an athlete is pushed to hard/quickly they will not have confidence in their ability which will lead to mental blocks, inconsistency, and loss of skills during growth spurts.

Get to know your coaches. What qualifies them to teach your child? Being able to do a skill does not mean they are qualified to teach it. Being a all star cheerleader for 12 years does not qualify you to coach? What credentials do they have? Who taught them to spot? How much training do they have? How long have they been coaching? What do they do to increase their skill level as a coach?

Even though I do not teach team gymnastics anymore I still maintain all of my USAG professional credentials, in addition to my USASF certificated and many others. Here is the dirty little secret of all star cheer the USASF does not require you to show that you know how to spot/teach a skill, just that you can talk your way through it.

So when in doubt ask questions. Get to know your coaches. They are many good qualified coaches out there, but there are also many who just got thrown in the gym because they once were a cheerleader or they were strong enough to learn how to spot.

Where can coaches go to learn how to spot? My daughter actually had a powerful, beautiful ro 15bhs for over a year but the coaches didn't push into a tuck, for a while she just worked on core and drills, As I was paying for privates, it took a little longer than I would have liked but better that she has good form. She learned ro bhs tuck before ro tuck. Is that a problem?

 

[GymCoach]

Its like any trade you need to learn from someone with many years of knowledge and experience. You have to actively seek to improve your coaching/spotting skills. I am finding many young/inexperienced coaches think they know a lot more than they actually do. This cockiness leads to lack of growth.

Most can do a basic spot but they can't break the skill down. Coaching tumbling is so much more than spotting a skill. A coach needs to completely understand it, be able to explain it so the athlete understands, and have drills for each part of the skill. This falls under the owners/managers to continue education, have regular clinics in addition to seeking outside influences. There are so many different ways to teach a tumbling skill and different ways work for different athletes.

Ro bhs t should be taught before ro t. If an athlete has a ro bhs t I can usually teach a ro t in one to two lessons. The reverse is not true their are many athletes who can do ro t that can no begin to do a safe ro bhs t.

 

[Katybugmom]

Its like any trade you need to learn from someone with many years of knowledge and experience. You have to actively seek to improve your coaching/spotting skills. I am finding many young/inexperienced coaches think they know a lot more than they actually do. This cockiness leads to lack of growth.

Most can do a basic spot but they can't break the skill down. Coaching tumbling is so much more than spotting a skill. A coach needs to completely understand it, be able to explain it so the athlete understands, and have drills for each part of the skill. This falls under the owners/managers to continue education, have regular clinics in addition to seeking outside influences. There are so many different ways to teach a tumbling skill and different ways work for different athletes.

Ro bhs t should be taught before ro t. If an athlete has a ro bhs t I can usually teach a ro t in one to two lessons. The reverse is not true their are many athletes who can do ro t that can no begin to do a safe ro bhs t.

Glad to know she learned it in the right order. Our coaches seem to know what they are doing and break down the skills really well. Not sure how they will spot fulls- not there yet :(

 

[tumbleyoda]

It is extremely frustrating as a tumbling coach when they go to coach so-n-so who lets them move on and screws up all my hard work. I would rather slow an athlete down and teach it right which in the long run leads to more skills and less injury. There are a lot of coaches who were taught how to spot without being taught the bio-mechanics and physics of skills.

This has been one of my reasons against having kids in a program I work with going to other tumbling coaches outside of the program. That coach may not know the progressions I am working through or why. They may not know what I am trying to fix or what injury that athlete is coming back from. Sorry but I do not ascribe to the chuck me for cash theory. I say up front it will take time and patience even if I may think after a quick evaluation it may be a simple thing. There is a big difference in throwing a skill in privates vs during team practice vs at the end of practice vs competition. My point is to be able to get them ready to do it every time in competition without excuses.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Its like any trade you need to learn from someone with many years of knowledge and experience. You have to actively seek to improve your coaching/spotting skills. I am finding many young/inexperienced coaches think they know a lot more than they actually do. This cockiness leads to lack of growth.

Most can do a basic spot but they can't break the skill down. Coaching tumbling is so much more than spotting a skill. A coach needs to completely understand it, be able to explain it so the athlete understands, and have drills for each part of the skill. This falls under the owners/managers to continue education, have regular clinics in addition to seeking outside influences. There are so many different ways to teach a tumbling skill and different ways work for different athletes.

Ro bhs t should be taught before ro t. If an athlete has a ro bhs t I can usually teach a ro t in one to two lessons. The reverse is not true their are many athletes who can do ro t that can no begin to do a safe ro bhs t.

Agree. The body angle position for a RO Tuck is very different from a ROBHS. Most athletes that learn a RO Tuck first usually end up severly undercutting their ROBHS due to the angle their body hits/strikes the ground out of the RO or punching the BHS too high in the air.

A good coach will always seek to be better. He or she is not afraid to ask for help from those they respect in the same industry. They truly understand that we each stand on each others shoulders so that kid that immediatley responds to every thing we say we know another tumble coach laid that foundation - so we never take all the credit for any athlete's tumbling progress. Where there are lapses we seek to fix them not ignore them to leave it to another tumbling coach to deal with. They will get certified and excel beyond that. They will be able to communicate to athlete and parents what they are doing and why. They will have a plan whether it is a private, a tumble class or a team tumble - they will never just walk in and wing it. They build tumblers just like cheer coaches build stunts.

When I teach the tumble staff or the gymnastic staff (I still coach gymnastics events as well when needed at one of our locations) in clinics and staff workshops I always tell them jokingly that I can teach a monkey to spot but I cant teach a monkey to teach a skill. Spotting is relatively easy once you understand the basic concepts and techniques. If a tumble instructor is a good instructor he/she can get a majority of athletes to learn skills with minimal or no spot at all. Drills, patience, conditioning, body and spatial awareness exercises take the place of excessive spotting.

 

[Deleted member 8658]

What exactly is a layout?

its like a tuck except youdont bend your knees to your chest instead you set then make a hollow possion (like a straight body) until you land.
here is a video of a round off back handspring layout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNPkcO9XH0E