High School Uca/nca Camps

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Aug 18, 2015
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I am not-so-cautiously optimistic for nationals happening. February just seems so far away, and with the US population so antsy- despite the rising numbers in many states- it is probable to me that it will happen. Maybe I am letting my own excitement get to me. I know if COVID numbers are high in Florida in the months before nationals, it’s just not going to happen(last minute cancellation like UCA All Star most likely).

However, waiving the camp requirement is not something I’m optimistic about. This is Big V we’re talking about. Let’s not pretend they’re not what they are.
I agree that Nationals will be a go...Feb is 7 months away
 

luv2cheer92

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I am not-so-cautiously optimistic for nationals happening. February just seems so far away, and with the US population so antsy- despite the rising numbers in many states- it is probable to me that it will happen. Maybe I am letting my own excitement get to me. I know if COVID numbers are high in Florida in the months before nationals, it’s just not going to happen(last minute cancellation like UCA All Star most likely).

However, waiving the camp requirement is not something I’m optimistic about. This is Big V we’re talking about. Let’s not pretend they’re not what they are.
Keep in mind that while UCA All Star was heavily modified this year, it was not cancelled. But I don't think anyone had much of an idea of what was about to come at that time.

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Feb 18, 2016
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I am not-so-cautiously optimistic for nationals happening. February just seems so far away, and with the US population so antsy- despite the rising numbers in many states- it is probable to me that it will happen. Maybe I am letting my own excitement get to me. I know if COVID numbers are high in Florida in the months before nationals, it’s just not going to happen(last minute cancellation like UCA All Star most likely).

However, waiving the camp requirement is not something I’m optimistic about. This is Big V we’re talking about. Let’s not pretend they’re not what they are.

Here's my thought process - Varsity has the highest profit on camp (versus clothing, competitions, etc.). They won't get rid of this requirement, at least not right now, because that's the only reason will attend camp especially this year when finances will be tight. Home camps are almost pure profit for them so it's kind of a win-win with them cancelling all in person camps.

With that being said, come like end of October (that's my guess, as it's after Fall Break for most schools that have it) I do think they will waive the camp requirement for Nationals since at that point, anybody who would've done it already will have. This will open up Nationals to more teams, driving up their competition enrollment while still having gotten a decent amount of money from the camps which, let's be honest, is the only reason Big V requires them in the first place.

I'm not saying it's right, nor am I saying it's evil, but I do think it's the best thing Varsity can do in terms of making money and keeping the company financially stable, which they are desperately trying to do right now.
 
Apr 1, 2020
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Here's my thought process - Varsity has the highest profit on camp (versus clothing, competitions, etc.). They won't get rid of this requirement, at least not right now, because that's the only reason will attend camp especially this year when finances will be tight. Home camps are almost pure profit for them so it's kind of a win-win with them cancelling all in person camps.

With that being said, come like end of October (that's my guess, as it's after Fall Break for most schools that have it) I do think they will waive the camp requirement for Nationals since at that point, anybody who would've done it already will have. This will open up Nationals to more teams, driving up their competition enrollment while still having gotten a decent amount of money from the camps which, let's be honest, is the only reason Big V requires them in the first place.

I'm not saying it's right, nor am I saying it's evil, but I do think it's the best thing Varsity can do in terms of making money and keeping the company financially stable, which they are desperately trying to do right now.
I agree with you. The camp requirement being waived late in the game seems like a great move on their part. Absolutely sucks for all of us though!
 

catlady

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.....This will open up Nationals to more teams, driving up their competition enrollment while still having gotten a decent amount of money from the camps which, let's be honest, is the only reason Big V requires them in the first place.

I'm not saying it's right, nor am I saying it's evil, but I do think it's the best thing Varsity can do in terms of making money and keeping the company financially stable, which they are desperately trying to do right now.

Insurance underwriter's require governed or approved sport training to get sport insurance coverage. Just basic skills, rules, and safety is required to avoid potential lawsuits, especially for something like competitive cheer events. As long as Varsity can meet the insurance requirements there would be no issues, but insurance policy criteria has to be met yearly.
 
Feb 18, 2016
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Insurance underwriter's require governed or approved sport training to get sport insurance coverage. Just basic skills, rules, and safety is required to avoid potential lawsuits, especially for something like competitive cheer events. As long as Varsity can meet the insurance requirements there would be no issues, but insurance policy criteria has to be met yearly.

I assume they can, considering teams going to USA Nationals on the West Coast have, up until this year, been able to be attended the competition without going to camp and getting 'certification', unlike those who went to UCA. Taking a look at all the major allstar competitions people participate in every year without camp as well, and it's pretty clear that the only driving factor in requiring teams to go to camp is finances. Not sure if you've been to one recently, but when I took my kids to a UCA camp last year the 'certification' was a 15 minute class that was basically a vocabulary quiz, so it's not like the kids are actually learning anything in that regard.
 

catlady

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Taking a look at all the major allstar competitions people participate in every year without camp as well, and it's pretty clear that the only driving factor in requiring teams to go to camp is finances. Not sure if you've been to one recently, but when I took my kids to a UCA camp last year the 'certification' was a 15 minute class that was basically a vocabulary quiz, so it's not like the kids are actually learning anything in that regard.

All Star teams don't have to attend camp, they are trained by sport governed staff members and their USASF membership includes their athlete insurance benefits. Unfortunately, "training" doesn't always necessarily mean good "training," but it is still a requirement for insurance coverage that involves risk to attend events. Camp is providing training by an approved staff member to HS in the same way a USASF staff member provides training to All Star.
 
Feb 5, 2011
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Our last communication from our state director was an email clearly explaining camp will still be a requirement for nationals, and then a push of options. Little ridiculous seeing that we can't even hold a practice or stunt. Our season is still on hold, and we've been told delayed start to sports, without clear definition of what that means.

And the camp requirement for nationals hasn't always been a thing. I think it started the 2015-2016 season. It's just a money grab to make the top national Teams go to camp, because the majority weren't. That was a lot of guaranteed revenue that they could get.
 

catlady

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And the camp requirement for nationals hasn't always been a thing. I think it started the 2015-2016 season. It's just a money grab to make the top national Teams go to camp, because the majority weren't. That was a lot of guaranteed revenue that they could get.

I guess you could call accredited driver's education a money grab, but insurance companies still provide discounts or require accredited training to get coverage. Concussions, abuse, and increased injury rates have been the focus in all youth sports the last 4-5 years. Insurance requirements evolve with risk of lawsuits. I'm asking this because I truly don't know, but can you get accredited cheer training anywhere else other than a cheer gym or Varsity camp?

At a small mom and pop comp we attended in 2012, IMO, one participating gym should have been stopped from competing. They weren't just dropping and slightly busting skills, their flyers were face planting over and over, and their tumbling was terrifying. One of the first threads I posted on Fierce Board "Time to Intervene?" was asking if they ever stop a team from continuing when they obviously aren't trained or pushing skills the kids aren't qualified to throw. Insurance companies do not want 1980's sideline Karen thinking she can train competitive cheer.
 
Feb 18, 2016
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I guess you could call accredited driver's education a money grab, but insurance companies still provide discounts or require accredited training to get coverage. Concussions, abuse, and increased injury rates have been the focus in all youth sports the last 4-5 years. Insurance requirements evolve with risk of lawsuits. I'm asking this because I truly don't know, but can you get accredited cheer training anywhere else other than a cheer gym or Varsity camp?

At a small mom and pop comp we attended in 2012, IMO, one participating gym should have been stopped from competing. They weren't just dropping and slightly busting skills, their flyers were face planting over and over, and their tumbling was terrifying. One of the first threads I posted on Fierce Board "Time to Intervene?" was asking if they ever stop a team from continuing when they obviously aren't trained or pushing skills the kids aren't qualified to throw. Insurance companies do not want 1980's sideline Karen thinking she can train competitive cheer.

So here's I think why everybody is going to sort of push back on your mentality that this is for insurance reasons, and not just a money grab on the part of big V.
1. Wasn't required until about 5 years ago, and only was necessary for UCA Nationals (NFHCC). The need to go to camp wasn't in place for any other competition run by Varsity except for this one.
2. Requirement was expanded this upcoming season to include USA Nationals (maybe NCA Nationals as well, I honestly don't pay attention to NCA in my state), but still no other competitions (local or otherwise) require it.
3. There is no other way to get the accredited cheer training except through Varsity camp or V!ROC choreography (yes that's right, if you don't want to spend money on camp you can just hire a Varsity choreographer and get 'trained' through them).
4. The training is, and this is no exaggeration, a 10 minute vocabulary lesson. There are no safety demonstrations during the accrediting process and it happens during one of the breaks between all the skill classes at camp.

I understand insurance requirements, and how that may seem like a viable excuse, but I can assure you this is not the driving factor here. I have multiple friends that work pretty deep in the Varsity cog machine, and they've all but come out and said flat out that it's purely a financial decision. There is no in depth training that they're actually giving, no insurance requirements that they have to meet, nothing except for financial gain surrounding the decision to implement this requirement.
 

catlady

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I understand insurance requirements, and how that may seem like a viable excuse, but I can assure you this is not the driving factor here. I have multiple friends that work pretty deep in the Varsity cog machine, and they've all but come out and said flat out that it's purely a financial decision. There is no in depth training that they're actually giving, no insurance requirements that they have to meet, nothing except for financial gain surrounding the decision to implement this requirement.

Evidently those that you know deep in Varsity don't read the FAQ, because it clearly states the NFHS is the driving force. Credentialing is just a training process that organizations deem an authority in training and safety for liability purposes. That's it, that's all it is. If you read the FAQ Squad Credentialing specifically #10 which is:

Why is it only a requirement for UCA Nationals, but not for NCA or USA Nationals? It’s required for UCA’s National High School Cheerleading Championship because this national championship is the only one that is endorsed by the National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS). While credentialing is not a mandated requirement for the 2017 NCA or USA Nationals, it is strongly encouraged to go to camp to get the insights for success at competition.
 
Nov 10, 2015
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As of Monday, the commissioner of the KHSAA has said that until further notice the KHSAA will not sanction any team traveling more than one county outside the borders of KY, nor will the sanction any even requiring NFHS sanctioning. While I do not remember the exact number of teams from the exact number of states, let's just say that NHSCC requires NFHS sanctioning for NFHS high schools to attend. By the letter of the announcement, this may be the first NHSCC ever without a KY HS in attendance if he doesn't change his mind. We have already canceled our plans for NHSCC for the year, but many other schools were taken by surprise with this announcement.
 

oncecoolcoachnowmom

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As of Monday, the commissioner of the KHSAA has said that until further notice the KHSAA will not sanction any team traveling more than one county outside the borders of KY, nor will the sanction any even requiring NFHS sanctioning. While I do not remember the exact number of teams from the exact number of states, let's just say that NHSCC requires NFHS sanctioning for NFHS high schools to attend. By the letter of the announcement, this may be the first NHSCC ever without a KY HS in attendance if he doesn't change his mind. We have already canceled our plans for NHSCC for the year, but many other schools were taken by surprise with this announcement.

Wow.

Along same lines:

NY, NJ, CA and a few other states are still trying to get case numbers down. I would assume travel to NHSCC 2021 is up in the air for many.

Begs the question:

It is even really a true national level win if the states who send a good bit of the top talent can't come due to travel restrictions?
 
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