All-Star Usasf Feedback

[CLynn]

1. There is the perception that if you don't win or be extremely competitive, you will lose kids and being highly competitive takes 12 months for most teams.

Yes, which is why any sort of break would have to be a mandate and therefore the impact (in theory at least) same for all.

 

[quitthedrama]

I saw a tweet from Scott Foster about declining participation in all-star. I suspect that rising costs are the main factor behind it.

Parents have been practically shouting from the rooftops about this for years. People are priced out and burnt out. One example of many - the hotel I stayed at for NCA prior to STP was $129/night. The very next year when STP was instituted it was $189/night PLUS $10/extra person/night staying in the room. It actually cost me more to go to NCA this year than it did to go to Worlds (and that includes 2 spectator hopper admission passes).
Our region definitely has declining numbers, and more importantly, far less younger athletes. Our mini and youth divisions are far smaller than they were 5 years ago. The Open divisions are becoming more popular. That is a huge indicator of where the industry is heading - once the kids who have been doing this for 5+ years and their parents are allowing them to finish out their age eligibility (like mine) are gone, I think you will see numbers decline even faster unless changes are made to reduce costs.

 

[123jump4!]

Prior to Worlds/Summit being a thing, there was much more of mental break. Completely understand where you are coming from.

Among many factors pushing for a year-round season: 1. There is the perception that if you don't win or be extremely competitive, you will lose kids and being highly competitive takes 12 months for most teams. 2. Gyms would go out of business without revenue for months and/or coaches can't afford to get laid off for months at a time.

In our area, the time commitment and cost are putting people off. I know of several moms who have kids in tumbling classes who are interested in full year cheer but think it's too much. I think maybe gyms could experiment with later tryouts, lower costs, less travel comps... at least for younger age, lower level teams. They could end up attracting more business.

During the summer they would still offer camps, classes, clinics, etc.

Also, I think teams would not necessarily be less successful with kids having been on a couple of months break from mandatory practices, but that's of course debatable.

 

[cheer25mom]

In our area, the time commitment and cost are putting people off. I know of several moms who have kids in tumbling classes who are interested in full year cheer but think it's too much. I think maybe gyms could experiment with later tryouts, lower costs, less travel comps... at least for younger age, lower level teams. They could end up attracting more business.

During the summer they would still offer camps, classes, clinics, etc.

Also, I think teams would not necessarily be less successful with kids having been on a couple of months break from mandatory practices, but that's of course debatable.

Gyms would have to charge more per month in a shorter season to keep up with expenses in the off season if they did it that way.

 

[TheVipersMom]

@Ashley it says you quoted me but it doesn't show the post ?


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[123jump4!]

Gyms would have to charge more per month in a shorter season to keep up with expenses in the off season if they did it that way.

Not if they attracted more business by doing this. Less money per kid but more kids = could equal more money.

And it would be cheaper for parents if they attended less travel comps. Example: Do 1 travel comp for mini 1 instead of 3.

Our old gym in Florida does this. Their level 1 teams have cheaper uniforms and don't go to as many comps. Costs are significantly lower. It works well for them, they are a successful gym. Level 2 also goes to less comps than 3+.

 

[cheer25mom]

Not if they attracted more business by doing this. Less money per kid but more kids = could equal more money.

And it would be cheaper for parents if they attended less travel comps. Example: Do 1 travel comp for mini 1 instead of 3.

Our old gym in Florida does this. Their level 1 teams have cheaper uniforms and don't go to as many comps. Costs are significantly lower. It works well for them, they are a successful gym. Level 2 also goes to less comps than 3+.

More kids= more expenses though.
Younger age, lower level full year teams are what keeps the doors open at gyms. The same is true for most for profit kids sports or activity facilities. I know our dance studio wouldn't be able to operate without younger year round students.

A lower cost, low travel team works as a supplement to a regular full season program. They still got tuition money from those families for most of the season and can pay their staff. Costs are lower because their outlay for that team is lower. They can get coaches to take on those teams as an add on to their regular schedule.

Taking a couple of months off at all the lower levels is not going to work the same way. They are too large of a percentage of most gym's income. They would have to charge higher tuition rates the other months to still make mortgage and utility payments. Plus there is the added issue of coaches with no employment for 2-3 months out of the year. Most of them simply cannot be out of work that long. Camps and clinics aren't going to offer enough steady income to get them through the summer without some sort of reserve built up through the season via higher tuition.

 

[CLynn]

In our area, the time commitment and cost are putting people off. I know of several moms who have kids in tumbling classes who are interested in full year cheer but think it's too much.

Yes, agree. And if you believe quote from Scott Foster yesterday, participation in all star has been declining past three years so it would appear to be a larger trend.

Gyms would have to charge more per month in a shorter season to keep up with expenses in the off season if they did it that way.

Personally, I would not mind if my gym fee was increased say $15/month to make up $ lost for a three week break although I recognize that might not be a popular opinion. I am not expecting all summer off, but a week in May or until the end of May to recharge would be ideal.

 

[RandomCheerMom]

Gyms would have to charge more per month in a shorter season to keep up with expenses in the off season if they did it that way.

I don't get what happened. I guess costs all around got higher and they needed to cover those costs by going year round? When we started 11 years ago, the season was over at the end of April and we had May-June basically off. It was nice. Family time. Time to rest their body, etc. Then things seemed to have gotten out of hand. To stay competitive you had to practice if everyone else was. Then you lost all your free time. As your kids get older, you realize that time is more important than cheer. If we still got a month off ( any sort of break) and the school breaks- Christmas, spring break, etc, my daughter would still be cheering.

 

[RandomCheerMom]

Yes, agree. And if you believe quote from Scott Foster yesterday, participation in all star has been declining past three years so it would appear to be a larger trend.


Personally, I would not mind if my gym fee was increased say $15/month to make up $ lost for a three week break although I recognize that might not be a popular opinion. I am not expecting all summer off, but a week in May or until the end of May to recharge would be ideal.

I agree, and back when we had that time off we did just pay a higher monthly during that time. I'd totally forgotten about that! We paid slightly more and it was basically an open invite to come to the gym to drop in classes etc.

 

[mamabear]

I don't get what happened. I guess costs all around got higher and they needed to cover those costs by going year round? When we started 11 years ago, the season was over at the end of April and we had May-June basically off. It was nice. Family time. Time to rest their body, etc. Then things seemed to have gotten out of hand. To stay competitive you had to practice if everyone else was. Then you lost all your free time. As your kids get older, you realize that time is more important than cheer. If we still got a month off ( any sort of break) and the school breaks- Christmas, spring break, etc, my daughter would still be cheering.

I think that the industry is moving in the opposite direction.I think that it goes back to the Summit (again!) and the creation of major invite comps in December. Gyms know that they can get their bids easier and quicker, the earlier that they compete. If a bid is what you are seeking, it is worth the push to be performance ready by November. The Majors used to be the beginning of the elite comps. That was January. Now you have Cheer Alliance being in December. Add in Thanksgiving, and religious holiday, everything gets moved up earlier if you want to be competitive.

Take Star Vipers as an example. If I recall the thread correctly, they started choreo last year on Memorial Day... most of the other gyms barely had teams finalized by then. If you have an extra month or two to keep refining your routine and adding more difficulty, obviously you will do well early season.

 

[cheer25mom]

Take Star Vipers as an example. If I recall the thread correctly, they started choreo last year on Memorial Day... most of the other gyms barely had teams finalized by then. If you have an extra month or two to keep refining your routine and adding more difficulty, obviously you will do well early season.

Our gym is having team stunt clinics this weekend to teach elite sequences. Pyramids will be taught in June. They have figured out that teaching stunts earlier pays off.

 

[mamabear]

Our gym is having team stunt clinics this weekend to teach elite sequences.

Wow! That is early! . I think that is awesome; but, it also a good example of what I am saying :) May is ridiculously busy for most people. Weddings, Confirmations, pro ms and graduations , not to mention the last minute scramble to get poop done before school ends. Summer attendance is more important when you have a full routine to run.

There really is no way to slow things down. It is sad

 

[Cobalt_Jeron]

This 100 times. I don't see any reason a small and large team on the same level and age group can't compete against each other. It's the teams performance vs the score sheet and whoever hits it better should win regardless of the size of the team.

To a certain extent I agree. However there are pros and cons of being large vs small and vice versa. More options for pyramids, dance, etc with a large team, which hypothetically should produce a better score. Smaller teams have the advantage of being easier to get clean and together.

I think in a big comp they should be split, but if you only have 2-3 in your division you should merge them together.

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[these girls]

I think their should be less summit bids, I think comps outside of NCA should literally only give out like 1 paid and 1 at large per comp.

Not 3 paid and 10 at large. If these teams aren't out scoring the whole competition or heck even just the whole level then they shouldn't go.
There are times when 3 or 4 bids go to 1 level. That's a little much.


I watched the whole division of several divisions at summit. And I know some just had bad days but u could tell they were a good team... but others literally were hitting 0 and I knew wouldn't even crack top 10 for finals.

I understand why gyms are letting them go, so I'm not blaming them there. I just feel like there needs to be way less bids.


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Perhaps keep the number of bids, but comps only hand them out by hitting above x score.
Added bonus, with scores disclosed, parents could understand why their child's team who hit their routine but only scored x did not receive a bid. It would also help them realize that travel across the country for an "experience" when they have no chance of making day 2 is not a great idea.
I get that scores vary from comp to comp, but all the more reason to get that reined in.


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