All-Star Warmup Standards

[CGAcheer]

I have been considering all these requirements for a while... and there is one thing that concerns me. While all these requirements make complete sense I am concerned TOO many all at once will get voted down. So doing a little political thinking I have come up with this.

All warmups must be at least 15 minutes on mats meant for activity (this does not include stretching). That is the only suggestion I will make and have people vote on. I believe that can easily get the most support from other gyms AND have the most positive affect.

I was talking more about voting with our money in that post.

As to passing an actual vote, I would need to know more about who would vote on this particular type of issue. If its the coaches then I would venture to guess that the whole package would pass without a problem. If its the event producers, you'd have to look at the percentage of events who already meet or surpass the standards vs the ones who come up short.

If an EP is coming up short on meeting the standards, its going to cost potentially a lot of money to meet them.
Additional spring floor, more mats, truck space, set up time.
Elimination of some, which I assume are cheaper venues.

The potential unintended consequences could be-
Elimination of the Under $55 events (that seems to be about the price point in my experience that divides competitions that have some production value and meet the minimum warm up standards and the ones that don't)
That could lead to an increase in overall participation cost in cheer which could slow growth or it could decrease the number of overall competition which would increase the number of teams per competition which could possibly help keep those numbers down(in theory, but in reality, the competition with the most participants are also the most expensive)

The gyms that I see this hurting the most are the upstarts, More Rec ish gyms, and 1 to 3 team gyms that just want to stay local.

 

[King]

I was talking more about voting with our money in that post.

As to passing an actual vote, I would need to know more about who would vote on this particular type of issue. If its the coaches then I would venture to guess that the whole package would pass without a problem. If its the event producers, you'd have to look at the percentage of events who already meet or surpass the standards vs the ones who come up short.

If an EP is coming up short on meeting the standards, its going to cost potentially a lot of money to meet them.
Additional spring floor, more mats, truck space, set up time.
Elimination of some, which I assume are cheaper venues.

The potential unintended consequences could be-
Elimination of the Under $55 events (that seems to be about the price point in my experience that divides competitions that have some production value and meet the minimum warm up standards and the ones that don't)
That could lead to an increase in overall participation cost in cheer which could slow growth or it could decrease the number of overall competition which would increase the number of teams per competition which could possibly help keep those numbers down(in theory, but in reality, the competition with the most participants are also the most expensive)

The gyms that I see this hurting the most are the upstarts, More Rec ish gyms, and 1 to 3 team gyms that just want to stay local.

So is it more important that $55 events exist over safety concerns?

 

[SarahS]

I was talking more about voting with our money in that post.

As to passing an actual vote, I would need to know more about who would vote on this particular type of issue. If its the coaches then I would venture to guess that the whole package would pass without a problem. If its the event producers, you'd have to look at the percentage of events who already meet or surpass the standards vs the ones who come up short.

If an EP is coming up short on meeting the standards, its going to cost potentially a lot of money to meet them.
Additional spring floor, more mats, truck space, set up time.
Elimination of some, which I assume are cheaper venues.

The potential unintended consequences could be-
Elimination of the Under $55 events (that seems to be about the price point in my experience that divides competitions that have some production value and meet the minimum warm up standards and the ones that don't)
That could lead to an increase in overall participation cost in cheer which could slow growth or it could decrease the number of overall competition which would increase the number of teams per competition which could possibly help keep those numbers down(in theory, but in reality, the competition with the most participants are also the most expensive)

The gyms that I see this hurting the most are the upstarts, More Rec ish gyms, and 1 to 3 team gyms that just want to stay local.

To be fair, competitions CAN be run effectively under that price point. Coastal puts on Radical Rec for rec teams that meets all of these warm-up standards and it costs each team exactly $0 to participate. I'm sure Coastal considers Radical Rec something of a "loss leader" (doesn't make much money but encourages teams to attend other Coastal events), and I'm not saying that all EPs could/should follow this model, but I do think that less expensive competitions could *certainly* be expected to meet certain minimum standards for warm-up safety.

 

[CGAcheer]

So is it more important that $55 events exist over safety concerns?

To be fair, competitions CAN be run effectively under that price point. Coastal puts on Radical Rec for rec teams that meets all of these warm-up standards and it costs each team exactly $0 to participate. I'm sure Coastal considers Radical Rec something of a "loss leader" (doesn't make much money but encourages teams to attend other Coastal events), and I'm not saying that all EPs could/should follow this model, but I do think that less expensive competitions could *certainly* be expected to meet certain minimum standards for warm-up safety.

Obviously that particular price point is an observation from my area.

As to safety, there is a difference between inadequate warm ups and unsafe warm ups. I have been to a $30 comp that I will not be back to and I've been to $50-60 comps that while less than perfect provide a good experience. And these smaller comps definitely helped me grow my gym and my reputation when we were just starting out. And as long as you know what to expect, you can adjust accordingly.

 

[King]

Obviously that particular price point is an observation from my area.

As to safety, there is a difference between inadequate warm ups and unsafe warm ups. I have been to a $30 comp that I will not be back to and I've been to $50-60 comps that while less than perfect provide a good experience. And these smaller comps definitely helped me grow my gym and my reputation when we were just starting out. And as long as you know what to expect, you can adjust accordingly.

But your experience that what you were looking at was NOT safe and gave you the confidence to never go back to that competition is what helped you out. If those competitions that you chose to never attend again are STILL in business than it doesn't matter that the more informed owners do not go. The less informed gyms are still attending and putting our collective interests at risk are they not?

 

[lakerfantlc]

after cheer pros this weekend and their warm up area..(or lack there of) I think all those sound great...I know cheer pros does their best with what they have to cram in....but it was pretty unsafe like people were posting.

 

[CGAcheer]

But your experience that what you were looking at was NOT safe and gave you the confidence to never go back to that competition is what helped you out. If those competitions that you chose to never attend again are STILL in business than it doesn't matter that the more informed owners do not go. The less informed gyms are still attending and putting our collective interests at risk are they not?

I don't see how that particular Competition is still going. It only had 11 allstar teams this year, 4 dance teams and 7 school teams and a few individuals. Not to specifically call them out, but its an American Championship Regional. I haven't been to one of their State or National Events but they obviously know how to put together a good competition. But with the one in Orange Park the Ceiling is too low and there isn't a full floor warm up and the "tumbling strip" is open floor time which is 30 mins for all the teams in that session to go tumble on the performance floor. But all 3 of their regionals have similarly low numbers and I would think that warm ups are a big part of the reason.

It also helped that WSA came to jacksonville the next season around the same time and put on an event with production value and good warm ups and an overall good experience and in an arena instead of a highschool during the same point in the season. They now have 15 individuals/groups, 33 Allstar teams, 6 dance and 2 school at over twice the entry fee.

but there are the "gyms" that don't have a spring floor or potentially no floor at all or are ran off of a gymnastics floor or someone's back yard or in a school gym. And to us it seems like a terrible warm up but to them its better than what they usually practice with. Thats essentially where I started from and why I opened up my own gym, so I could do it right.

But yes, I won't be back to an AC regional until they call me and say that they've fixed the venue/warm up.

My other competition with bad warm ups that I have continued to go to, I give the benefit of the doubt. Long standing competition, but the venue is being rebuilt. So they had the choice to cancel or relocate to a different city for 2 year and potentially lose the following or use the less than adequate trailer tent hybrid facility and make sure that everyone is aware that the convention center will be open for next season.

 

[cheerbear2x]

I would like to commend Cheer America (Houston, TX) on their warmups. I don't know the measurements of the room, but the room was definitely tall enough for lvl 6 baskets to go. The total warmup time was 32 minutes.
1. 8 min on a 2 panel-wide stunt mat.
2. 8 min on a 3 panel-wide stunt mat.
3. 8 min on a 2 panel-wide tumbling mat.
4. 8 min on a full spring floor.
We had über amounts of time to warmup. We didn't even use the last 1-2 minutes most of the time.
(of course, their sound system was a MESS! But lets save that for another thread..)

 

[omgitssydthekid]

This past weekend at Wacky Jam in Omaha Nebraska, I wasn't overly impressed with the warm ups from and athletes stand point. The ceilings were plently high for our two highest baskets so that wasn't an issue. I didn't like that it was only a two panel wide stunt mat because the whole first part of our pyramid couldn't be warmed up on it. Also the tumbling strip was narrow so only one person could tumble at a time. We have a small team (17 people) and I wasn't able to warm up my standing pass but I've had it for a while so it wasn't an issue. Then there was a full non-spring floor and that was fine also. But being as that we were the last team of the day we felt kind of rushed because the employees were tearing everything apart as soon as we steped off the mats.

 

[txcheergirl11]

I would like to commend Cheer America (Houston, TX) on their warmups. I don't know the measurements of the room, but the room was definitely tall enough for lvl 6 baskets to go. The total warmup time was 32 minutes.
1. 8 min on a 2 panel-wide stunt mat.
2. 8 min on a 3 panel-wide stunt mat.
3. 8 min on a 2 panel-wide tumbling mat.
4. 8 min on a full spring floor.
We had über amounts of time to warmup. We didn't even use the last 1-2 minutes most of the time.
(of course, their sound system was a MESS! But lets save that for another thread..)

the warm ups rooms this weekend were great! And i liked that they had the pre warmup room with mats so no one was stunting on tile or concrete!

 

[cheerheart4life]

I'm so pumped for cheersport. Best warmups ever!! (except the long wait)

 

[FlyingHigh]

I just went to a comp yesterday where the warm ups were terrible. we were in a very small old theather (which did not have heating so we could all see our breaths...great weather to pull a hamstring right!) and we couldn't do our normal streches becase stage was "Rotting in some places so jumping on it could make it collapse" said by an event staff. We wre on that floor for about eight minutes, then moved to another stage that was behind the comp floor. This was only about five feet wide and about 20 feet long. It was one of the worst run comp I have ever been to. There should be requirements for warm ups so an athlete doesn't get hurt, which had happen yesterday.

 

[Anna-grace]

I agree, at some uk comps there is no sprung mat at all in warm ups just 2 tiffin floors and that's it, possibly a small area of stretching mats or a tiffin strip for tumbling, so the first time you step onto a sprung floor is to compete, this is a massive problem because lots of uk teams don't practice on a spring floor, also my teams sprung floor is a lot different to some others as it is older and slightly differen, this is alright for lower level teams but must be really annoying for higher level teams

 

[MiniReeRah]

I agree, at some uk comps there is no sprung mat at all in warm ups just 2 tiffin floors and that's it, possibly a small area of stretching mats or a tiffin strip for tumbling, so the first time you step onto a sprung floor is to compete, this is a massive problem because lots of uk teams don't practice on a spring floor, also my teams sprung floor is a lot different to some others as it is older and slightly differen, this is alright for lower level teams but must be really annoying for higher level teams

Really agree with you on this. I wish EP's would have a pre=warm up area where you could do the warm up you'd do in the gym e.g run, stretch etc then go into warm-ups where you do tumbles, stunts, routine etc.
Also the tumble strip appears rather small (not that I can tumble, luckily I know I'm cart wheeling even if it doesn't look like one to otherws lol), but for those with more advanced tumbling, I dont know how they can do it on such a small strip. I think you should have a sprung floor in warms-ups as like you said not many teams practise on sprung and ours is old, so it's not really good if your first time on sprung flooring is when you compete

 

[Justacoach]

How about a clause where the comp can't be outside in 40 degree weather? MISERABLE at state fair yesterday. And its been that way for years. Hopefully we won't be going back!!