All-Star Ways To Eliminate Sandbagging

[cheerKT]

I've lost a competition to sandbaggers before. 3 of them, actually. Cheersport 2007 or so. We finished 4th in a huge division and all 3 teams ahead of us had sandbagged. As in, competed level 4 until Cheersport and then went level 3. You could their routine had been tweaked too. Full team 1 standing bhs where the standing tucks would have been....any level 3 team would have standing series, a single bhs does not max out in level 3.

There is nothing quite like knowing that I would have been a Cheersport National Champion if other teams hadn't decided to do that. I'm 21 now and it still irks me. I know the gym names and I for real still hold a grudge. hahaha

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

It's relevant because Western Arizona CC and Alabama are in their own ways "levels" (consider WACC level 2 and Alabama level 5). Should Mark Ingram, Cam Newton and Robert Griffin III have the option to play at WACC (level 2, way below their capability, where they will be by far the best player on the team) or should they be forced to reach their max potential and play at LSU or Alabama (level 5, pushing them to the limit where they may not be the best person on the team, but an equal). The NCAA says they get the choice... So does USASF right now...

They'd all be better just playing for LSU. JMO... :)


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[cheerKT]

They'd all be better just playing for LSU. JMO... :)


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Choose wisely because with the new recruiting rules all SEC teams only get 25 per year!

 

[samantha says]

They'd all be better just playing for LSU. JMO... :)


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Is it fair to tell them they can't play for WACC though...?

 

[CGAcheer]

Ok, let me see if I can get my thought out right...

What if we focus more on team registrations? Each athlete receives a unique ID number (and a shoe tag, ID card, whatever.) As teams are registered, USASF (or some central body) runs registrations through a "check" to see if an athlete is competing with level teams within an acceptable limit. The first competition by default becomes a sort of "benchmark" for the season. So athlete A competes 6 events a the following levels: 2, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 1. This would be deemed OK by the computer. If an athlete shows up as: 5, 5, 5, 5, 2, the system would spit out an objection. This objection would then look at that particular team's make up. 2 possible scenarios...1) this team registered shows to be make up of mainly level 2 athletes, and the 5 is just one (indicating a fill in), or 2) this team registered as level 2 and is made up of athletes competing levels 3,4,5 and action is taken.

I get in the first few competitions of the year, there wouldn't be much "history" to compare, but after year one there will be some historical data to compare.

If we want to add a "credential" by athlete, we can always have gyms establish the "benchmark" for each athlete at registration (but is merely a "I expect this athlete to compete level x").

I like this, What better method to measure the level of the athlete than keeping a history of the level the athlete performed at. If there is an anomaly in the pattern, it is noted and dealt with, perhaps there can even be a separate sandbag division or they could have a red S next to their name on the schedule.

As for the credentialing, teams have to be whatever percentage of whatever level. I'm assuming you haven't been through the hours of post tryout discussions trying to make the best teams possible for your gym and the athletes in it, because you would be well aware that the team selection process is difficult enough as it is without having to deal with meeting arbitrary quotas.

 

[cupieqt]

I like this, What better method to measure the level of the athlete than keeping a history of the level the athlete performed at. If there is an anomaly in the pattern, it is noted and dealt with, perhaps there can even be a separate sandbag division or they could have a red S next to their name on the schedule.

Lol! The scarlet letter of cheer. Sandbaggers.

 

[GreatWhite92]

We can make them pin it on their uniforms so everyone knows when they are on the floor.

 

[5-6-7-8]

and what about crossovers? Do they get two numbers on their record each competition?

Yes, but I think by the gym providing a "benchmark" level, we can maybe use that to determine the anomaly. So a level 3 athlete crossing to a level 2 team will have a bunch of 2s and 3s, but crossing to a level 1 might send up the flag. (And that only triggers a look at the level 1 team, if that athlete is only one of a small percentage of level 2 or 3 athletes, it wouldn't trigger a "team" flag.)

Football analogy - I think the biggest difference (or one of them) between AS cheer and other sports is that as a general rule, everyone makes a team. Or in say baseball (since I have seen that one first hand) the league has a draft and assigns the players to each team. So teams are in theory evenly matched (won't get into the politics there, LOL!)

If you look at football recruiting, each team is trying to get the best X number of athletes possible. I would think any player given the choice would choose a D1 school over a community college. (And the one valid reason I can think of that one might not is if the player knows he won't play much or at all at a D1 school, and would be able to start at a community college. I would liken that to a cheer athlete who is "between levels" like a strong level 2 athlete with some level 3 skills.)

Rollout of "trending" - I think this could be phased in as well. First year, start with a year of gathering the trending data, scanning registered athletes before entering warmups, and doing random checks with a penalty that is severe enough to provide and incentive to follow the rules. Or even a year of just collecting data to see how prevalent an issue this is before spending more resources on the issue. And yes, offenders will be "flagged" and those teams may be more subject to verification.

Event Registrations - Somehow event registrations would need to be run through a central database that EPs have real time access to for event registrations. This could also make registrations simpler for gyms. Once a gym inputs its data of athletes and team assignments once, it would be able to quickly register for other events (assuming most changes throughout the year are somewhat small.) This database could also house scans of birth certificates in the event there is an age dispute.

Beyond that if wanted / needed, complexity could be built in to factor in the record of a team (so a level 5 team that is getting killed would be able to "justify" going restricted 5 or level 4 without sending up flags.)

...just more of my thoughts...sorry if they are all over the place. I would love to have a good hour or two to sit and get my thoughts in order. :)

 

[JulieP]

We can make them pin it on their uniforms so everyone knows when they are on the floor.

Inevitably, someone would glitz up that scarlet letter with some rhinestones, and we would all applaud it on the New Uniforms thread. :eek:

 

[5-6-7-8]

Inevitably, someone would glitz up that scarlet letter with some rhinestones, and we would all applaud it on the New Uniforms thread. :eek:

hahahaha!! So true!!

 

[flcheermom]

I know its not exactly the same but to just give a quick example - my son plays competitive soccer. There are different levels within each age group... those levels play each other in league play/tournaments... state cup/region cup/competitive rec. (A player never fluctuates from a state cup team to a rec team.)..He plays U16. A player can only play up - two age groups max.. - never down. But typically a player stays within their age group. It would be like my son's team playing a rec team or having state cup players (highest level team within an age group) added to a team and then playing a recreation team. The rules are still the same. Both teams have 11 boys of the same age...can still only play by the rules of soccer - but the speed and skill that the state cup players posses will be drastically different than the rec players... the rec players would not stand a chance! I am not comparing the lower levels of cheer to rec - just using another sport as an example that when you do used higher level - more skilled athletes only doing what the lower level allows it does show in the execution - if you are using that solely to your advantage and not to fill in spots to round out a team or for injuries.

 

[5-6-7-8]

The soccer example shows another difference we contend with: athletes compete for a gym of her/his choosing. In most of these other team sports, athletes try out for a league and then are assigned to teams from there (I am thinking AYSO and our local baseball org. Not sure if club / travel teams work the same way.)

In cheer we take the athletes who show up at tryouts and try to create teams based on ages, skills, etc. within a gym. Add to that the fact that there is no "bench" for a cheer team (other than the remaining age and or skill appropriate kids in the gym.).

This is one of the complicating factors for an absolute form of athlete credentialing.

 

[flcheermom]

The soccer example shows another difference we contend with: athletes compete for a gym of her/his choosing. In most of these other team sports, athletes try out for a league and then are assigned to teams from there (I am thinking AYSO and our local baseball org. Not sure if club / travel teams work the same way.)

In cheer we take the athletes who show up at tryouts and try to create teams based on ages, skills, etc. within a gym. Add to that the fact that there is no "bench" for a cheer team (other than the remaining age and or skill appropriate kids in the gym.).

This is one of the complicating factors for an absolute form of athlete credentialing.

I agree. Cheer is unique from other sports in alot of ways. I was just commenting on the fact that using higher level athletes on lower level teams does impact execution of a skill and trying to use another sport as an example.. since some say they can only do the skill allowed in that level so it should not matter. :)

 

[5-6-7-8]

I agree. Cheer is unique from other sports in alot of ways. I was just commenting on the fact that using higher level athletes on lower level teams does impact execution of a skill and trying to use another sport as an example.. since some say they can only do the skill allowed in that level so it should not matter. :)

:). I definitely agree with you. I quoted your post more to elaborate on the issues we face than to disagree.

 

[5-6-7-8]

Since the famous "level 2" thread has heated up again, thought I would bump this up to get more thoughts / ideas flowing...