All-Star Ways To Eliminate Sandbagging

[Num1Stunta]

Wouldn't this put the athlete in the position where they couldn't compete with a respectable gym? Your average puts them at level 4, but what competitive level 4 team would take them without a standing tuck and a layout?

You should read the post I wrote prior... that post was ONLY referring to 4.2 eligibility. That athlete's USASF credential would most likely be 3.

 

[CGAcheer]

This is why I keep coming back to the "trending" idea.

It would allow flexibility, but also watch for anomalies such as an athlete competing level 4 most of a season dropping to level 2. (But even then, it would look at the team makeup of that level 2 team, and dismiss it if it is just one level 4 athlete indicating a fill in and not the intent to stack.)

I have no problem with athletes crossing over for good reasons (someone who usually flies to learn to base, a shaky level 2 also competing level 1, last minute injury or illness) as long as it isn't an apparent attempt to sandbag.

Athlete credentialing would be great as well, but I feel it might add complexity (Suzie stunts bases level 2, can fly level 4, tumbles level 3...) without a substantial reward. Or use credentials as a baseline level.

The trending idea is my favorite so far, you could also add competition results into it, that way if a level 4 just came in last and decides to drop to 3 it's not a sandbag alert

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

You all are already aware that each athlete is already credentialed through the USASF athlete registration system, correct? In my account for my kid, there is a section that states "athlete credentials" and has a section for each Toss, Tumble, and Stunt, of which my daughter was credentialed as a level 2 for each. The basis for athlete credentialing is already there, it's just now USASF needs to figure put how to put it to use.

 

[5-6-7-8]

The trending idea is my favorite so far, you could also add competition results into it, that way if a level 4 just came in last and decides to drop to 3 it's not a sandbag alert

Exactly. And perhaps take it even further (though not in the first iteration) by looking at the history of an athlete who consistently wins at level x may need a "bump up" at some point. Scores could also be incorporated to see if a team is "barely winning" or blowing other teams out of the water.

My son plays tennis, so use my tennis example (and I get that tennis is more individual so it doesn't always apply), each tennis player starts off with a "self rate" and then at the conclusion of a calendar year is given a "computer" rating based on record (and also the record of those one plays against.) There is also a "hidden" dynamic rating that the computer changes after every match. I don't propose going to that level of detail, but I am just gathering ideas. (Not sure where the tennis association gets its funding, but we pay only about $60 per year.)

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

You all are already aware that each athlete is already credentialed through the USASF athlete registration system, correct? In my account for my kid, there is a section that states "athlete credentials" and has a section for each Toss, Tumble, and Stunt, of which my daughter was credentialed as a level 2 for each. The basis for athlete credentialing is already there, it's just now USASF needs to figure put how to put it to use.

I forgot to mention it includes the dates the athlete was credentialed, and there are sections at the bottom for the gym and teams the athlete is associated with.

 

[peytonnmariee]

i dont know if this has been said already or answered. but what if your on a level 4 but your only a level 2 athlete?
personally i think it would be SO complicated! because if you wanted to add every time an athlete got a new skill/moved up a level, that would be crazy! and some times, we all have bad tumbling days or good tumbling days, so i just think that you shouldnt be able to drop any levels after so many months in your season, unless you have a legitimate reason. when i say legitimate reason, i mean if you lost like half of your team. i know someone will say, "our level 3 was struggling so we went level 2 for these compeitions. but if your struggling, you would have all summer and part of fall to decide what level your going to be. you can move up levels, just not go down. so, this would work for teams that start out going level 4 and end up going 5. also, sometimes teams gain skills throughout the year, i know our coed 4 was going to go restricted 5.

 

[peytonnmariee]

i dont know if this has been said already or answered. but what if your on a level 4 but your only a level 2 athlete?
personally i think it would be SO complicated! because if you wanted to add every time an athlete got a new skill/moved up a level, that would be crazy! and some times, we all have bad tumbling days or good tumbling days, so i just think that you shouldnt be able to drop any levels after so many months in your season, unless you have a legitimate reason. when i say legitimate reason, i mean if you lost like half of your team. i know someone will say, "our level 3 was struggling so we went level 2 for these compeitions. but if your struggling, you would have all summer and part of fall to decide what level your going to be. you can move up levels, just not go down. so, this would work for teams that start out going level 4 and end up going 5. also, sometimes teams gain skills throughout the year, i know our coed 4 was going to go restricted 5.

also wanted to add this in but didnt do it fast enough:

also, with this whole crossover issue. i dont think there should be a limited number, because some kids enjoy doing crossovers, like myself. but maybe just only say they can only crossover to one level under or above. so a level 3 athlete can be on a level 2 or level 4. but then, you look at kids who are on a level 4 team or other level but dont have level 4 skills, so would you count those kids for being a level 4 athlete? i think limiting crossovers and saying which team would be on is very confusing.

MAYBE EVERYONE SHOULD JUST COMPETE THE LEVEL YOUR TEAM IS AT! and we wouldnt have these problems

 

[RockstarCheer]

One of the issues will always be how do you determine what level an athlete is? We have athletes who don't even have a Standing tuck on Level 5 teams. We also have bran new gymnasts that may be level 4 in tumbling but Awful at every Other aspect Of the score sheet. So for the first year She may fly on a Sr 2 team to fully learn jumps, motions, dance, builds, etc. Do you use Stunts or tumbling to determine it? Most score sheets in the industry weight Builds more than tumbling. That's a real issue that must addressed. What you may call a Level 5 athlete is different than what we may call one.

 

[Num1Stunta]

i dont know if this has been said already or answered. but what if your on a level 4 but your only a level 2 athlete?
personally i think it would be SO complicated! because if you wanted to add every time an athlete got a new skill/moved up a level, that would be crazy! and some times, we all have bad tumbling days or good tumbling days, so i just think that you shouldnt be able to drop any levels after so many months in your season, unless you have a legitimate reason. when i say legitimate reason, i mean if you lost like half of your team. i know someone will say, "our level 3 was struggling so we went level 2 for these compeitions. but if your struggling, you would have all summer and part of fall to decide what level your going to be. you can move up levels, just not go down. so, this would work for teams that start out going level 4 and end up going 5. also, sometimes teams gain skills throughout the year, i know our coed 4 was going to go restricted 5.

I think mainly the issue we're talking about here is how to level the playing field. Moving up a level is not the same as moving down, and doesn't give the team you're moving to any distinct advantage. In your example, is "level 2 athlete" just referring to tumbling? In which case, I did post an equation that takes all areas of the scoresheet into consideration to determine what level the athlete would be credentialed at.

I forgot to mention it includes the dates the athlete was credentialed, and there are sections at the bottom for the gym and teams the athlete is associated with.

The problem with the current system is that it isn't mandatory, and it has no actual function other than maybe to help quell complaints from Suzie's Mom that she has a backhandspring but should be on level 5.

 

[RockstarCheer]

Suzie's Mom that she has a backhandspring but should be on level 5.

If she can single base a full up and is the best base on the team then she may be on a Level 5 team, especially at our gym!

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

I The problem with the current system is that it isn't mandatory, and it has no actual function other than maybe to help quell complaints from Suzie's Mom that she has a backhandspring but should be on level 5.

Correct. however, I had just stated that the system is there and in place, and USASF needs to figure out how to use it.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

One of the issues will always be how do you determine what level an athlete is? We have athletes who don't even have a Standing tuck on Level 5 teams. We also have bran new gymnasts that may be level 4 in tumbling but Awful at every Other aspect Of the score sheet. So for the first year She may fly on a Sr 2 team to fully learn jumps, motions, dance, builds, etc. Do you use Stunts or tumbling to determine it? Most score sheets in the industry weight Builds more than tumbling. That's a real issue that must addressed. What you may call a Level 5 athlete is different than what we may call one.

I think that would be one of the perks of the system. You, as a gym owner, should be free to classify an athlete in your gym as whatever level you want. Just be prepared to compete them at that level all season +/- one level.

 

[Num1Stunta]

One of the issues will always be how do you determine what level an athlete is? We have athletes who don't even have a Standing tuck on Level 5 teams. We also have bran new gymnasts that may be level 4 in tumbling but Awful at every Other aspect Of the score sheet. So for the first year She may fly on a Sr 2 team to fully learn jumps, motions, dance, builds, etc. Do you use Stunts or tumbling to determine it? Most score sheets in the industry weight Builds more than tumbling. That's a real issue that must addressed. What you may call a Level 5 athlete is different than what we may call one.

In the post I mentioned earlier, you would be ranking all of the areas on the scoresheet to make a level determination. To use your example athlete: Standing Tumbling (4) Running Tumbling (4) Jumps (3) (I say this, because if she is a gymnast, she probably has decent jumps) Stunts (2) Tosses (2) Dance (2)... She'd be a 2.83, which rounds up to a Level 3... She'd be eligible for a level 2, 3, or 4 team.

 

[RockstarCheer]

In the post I mentioned earlier, you would be ranking all of the areas on the scoresheet to make a level determination. To use your example athlete: Standing Tumbling (4) Running Tumbling (4) Jumps (3) (I say this, because if she is a gymnast, she probably has decent jumps) Stunts (2) Tosses (2) Dance (2)... She'd be a 2.83, which rounds up to a Level 3... She'd be eligible for a level 2, 3, or 4 team.

That's pretty good and has some great logic to it. However I think the movement of 1 level should be restricted to moving down only. What's the harm of using my 6 foot tall Backspot that is on Level 1 for my Level 5 routine if she makes the stunts hit?

 

[RockstarCheer]

And she literally is level 1 in all areas including tumbling but she can make that stunt hit and I need her for that event. I feel athletes should be able to move up as much as they want