All-Star Ways To Eliminate Sandbagging

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

And she literally is level 1 in all areas including tumbling but she can make that stunt hit and I need her for that event. I feel athletes should be able to move up as much as they want

Then what's to stop you from designating all of your athletes as level 1 and utilizing them as you see fit and sandbagging the lower level teams. Clearly you know that the cheerleading community is against this and is trying to come up with solutions to letting people just stack teams all willy-nilly...

 

[Num1Stunta]

That's pretty good and has some great logic to it. However I think the movement of 1 level should be restricted to moving down only. What's the harm of using my 6 foot tall Backspot that is on Level 1 for my Level 5 routine if she makes the stunts hit?

I see what you're saying, but now that becomes a question of why we have leveling and progressions in the first place- not just for fairness, but for safety. If you're saying she's a level 5 backspot for stunts and tosses then under my system, she probably would be ranked in the high 2's in the first place. In this case, it would be rounded to Level 3, which would make her eligible for levels 2,3,4. We could argue that maybe it'd be more helpful for smaller gyms if you were allowed to compete down 1 level or up 2, yes?

 

[RockstarCheer]

Then what's to stop you from designating all of your athletes as level 1 and utilizing them as you see fit and sandbagging the lower level teams. Clearly you know that the cheerleading community is against this and is trying to come up with solutions to letting people just stack teams all willy-nilly...

I'm merely trying to poke holes and offer all points which is what anybody and everybody should do when trying to create a rule. Either way it doesn't matter to me what a rule is. Whatever the rules are we will gladly follow as always. A even larger issue is the fact that teams compete with athletes who are too old in Senior divisions. This happened to us last year, we protested, provided proof and they were knocked down one place on the events website. The USASF could not do anything about it because that gym isn't a ISASF certified or registered gym lol. This is clearly cheating an in violation of stated rules and yet the USASF Is handcuffed and can't do anything about it. I propose that someone write a rule that gyms may not attend USASF events unless they are members of the USASF

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

I see what you're saying, but now that becomes a question of why we have leveling and progressions in the first place- not just for fairness, but for safety. If you're saying she's a level 5 backspot for stunts and tosses then under my system, she probably would be ranked in the high 2's in the first place. In this case, it would be rounded to Level 3, which would make her eligible for levels 2,3,4. We could argue that maybe it'd be more helpful for smaller gyms if you were allowed to compete down 1 level or up 2, yes? [/quote]

Can I argue this with my above post? (I'm not being indignant ;) I'm more mesmerized with the fairly tame debates going on right now...) Also, what's the point of registering an athlete if they can compete up to 4 divisions...

Level 1... levels 1-3
Level 2... levels 1-4
Level 3... levels 2-5
Level 4... levels 3-5
Level 5... levels 4-5

However, would it help to say that your true level is based off of your highest level team you perform on?

 

[gymcatmomx2]

Let's use that system with another real world example. We have an athlete that has been battling a tumbling block since before the season started. She has Level 4 flying abilities, she is unable to perform any backwards tumbling, but has beautiful front walk overs and front punches and her jumps are at level or above. She's only 12 so her dancing is not as strong as the older girls but she has good motions.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

I'm merely trying to poke holes and offer all points which is what anybody and everybody should do when trying to create a rule. Either way it doesn't matter to me what a rule is. Whatever the rules are we will gladly follow as always. A even larger issue is the fact that teams compete with athletes who are too old in Senior divisions. This happened to us last year, we protested, provided proof and they were knocked down one place on the events website. The USASF could not do anything about it because that gym isn't a ISASF certified or registered gym lol. This is clearly cheating an in violation of stated rules and yet the USASF Is handcuffed and can't do anything about it. I propose that someone write a rule that gyms may not attend USASF events unless they are members of the USASF

This should have been a rule long ago.

 

[Num1Stunta]

Let's use that system with another real world example. We have an athlete that has been battling a tumbling block since before the season started. She has Level 4 flying abilities, she is unable to perform any backwards tumbling, but has beautiful front walk overs and front punches and her jumps are at level or above. She's only 12 so her dancing is not as strong as the older girls but she has good motions.

You could argue that she is:
Stunts (4)
Tosses (4)
Standing tumbling (1)- front walkover
Running tumbling (3)- punch front
Jumps (4)
Dance (3)

She's a 3.16, or a Level 3... She could cheer level 2,3,4

 

[CharlotteASMom]

I propose that someone write a rule that gyms may not attend USASF events unless they are members of the USASF

I thought there was already something in the works for this? No?

 

[Deleted member 15]

I thought there was already something in the works for this? No?

Yes, it's in the works and will be for a while.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I too am really liking the 'trend' idea. Swipe the card/shoe tag/whatever method that matches the athletes registered to the athletes in the warmup room. Once the actual numbers are in the system, you can get a better idea of how common certain behaviors are (small/large gyms using crossovers, how many, across what levels, etc). Large percentage of a level 5 team is suddenly competing level 2? Computer flags it for review. Age eligibility tags, if someone on the team isn't worlds-eligible/crosses 3 levels, heck you could put releases in there at some point so if an athlete isn't released from a previous team, it would know before they even got on the floor.

 

[peytonnmariee]

I think mainly the issue we're talking about here is how to level the playing field. Moving up a level is not the same as moving down, and doesn't give the team you're moving to any distinct advantage. In your example, is "level 2 athlete" just referring to tumbling? In which case, I did post an equation that takes all areas of the scoresheet into consideration to determine what level the athlete would be credentialed at.



The problem with the current system is that it isn't mandatory, and it has no actual function other than maybe to help quell complaints from Suzie's Mom that she has a backhandspring but should be on level 5.

yeah i get what your saying! i was just using tumbling as an example out of many aspects to a routine!

 

[peytonnmariee]

how about kids who have double fulls and can stunt level 5, and is a level 5 athlete but isnt on a level 5 team, and such but there isnt a level 5 team at their gym, only a level 2 or 3?

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

how about kids who have double fulls and can stunt level 5, and is a level 5 athlete but isnt on a level 5 team, and such but there isnt a level 5 team at their gym, only a level 2 or 3?

How long do you think a solid level 5 athlete is willing to hang around a gym that only has a level 2 or 3?

 

[peytonnmariee]

How long do you think a solid level 5 athlete is willing to hang around a gym that only has a level 2 or 3?

true, but sometimes i happens! some kids at our gym have had level 5 skils while we only had a level 3 team. i mean we are from michigan, were there really arent super good level 5 teams out here. but the ones that are decent are aways a way! and when your level 3 is outscoring michigan level 5's.....

 

[UK Cheer Girl]

You should read the post I wrote prior... that post was ONLY referring to 4.2 eligibility. That athlete's USASF credential would most likely be 3.

That works if the athlete wants to be on a 4.2 team. From what I can tell, tumbling skill defines an athlete's level more than any other area, e.g Level 3 Allstars advertise tryouts and say you must have minimum roundoff back tuck to come. They don't say you must have a toe touch basket (for example). So the athlete you specified had an average of 3.75 which you rounded up to 4. Apart from 4.2 (which not all gyms have) the cheerleader's tumbling only makes them eligible for level 2. But if they can only go +/-1 from their credentialled level, they are not allowed to compete level 2. Or have I missed something? I imagine there are lot of athletes whose stunting ability would pull up their average.