We Don't Do That In Cheer.....sorry

[notyourcheermom]

I love the way @Matt Faherty always takes the time to post well thought out and extremely informative responses to questions. Anytime there is a thread about tumbling technique or skill progression and I read his input, I am reminded of just how lucky we are to have the input of coaches on here who really care about what they are doing with their athletes and want to help others achieve their goals. Thank you Matt!

A year ago I sent @Matt Faherty a video of CP's tumbling when she was blocking. He offered in a thread, I took him up on it. Gave some great instruction and tips and tricks via NY? to FL. Very detailed and responded right away. I Appreciated it greatly. New username, Matt, we switched gyms last June.

Picked out the problem immediately. Once he pointed it out, I saw it and CP saw it when we would record her and she would play it back for herself. CP: I'm doing it again.

 

[cheer25mom]

It will. I know you posted somewhere that you're 12 or 13. The people who are responding to this thread who are telling you that, generally, learning to tumble the "gymnastics way" with proper progressions and concentration on perfecting skills is going to help you more in the long run than learning things the "cheer way" where you're learning the next skill as soon as you're barely chucking a skill on your own are people who KNOW what they're talking about. Chucking skills isn't fierce. It's not pretty. It's scary. Just because you can physically do some form of tuck or layout doesn't mean you should be competing it or moving on to the next skill. Slow down. You have the opportunity to learn how to do things correctly, take it. In a few years when you have beautiful, effortless doubles, thank everyone that told you to stick with what you're doing right now.

Good cheer gyms don't teach tumbling this way IMO. I know our gym doesn't. we have certified instructors who teach solid tumbling technique, emphasize proper conditioning as essential to safe tumbling, and teach perfection before progression. I wouldn't have my kid somewhere that didn't focus on safely perfecting a skill before putting it on the floor or moving on to the next skill. I have seen the tumbling that results from that and it is pretty scary. I don't know of very many gyms with seriously dangerous practices and poor technique instruction to the point it is a danger who have lasted very long, at least in our area. They are around for a couple of years and then die off.


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[Rebecca Dahlquist]

I prefer to have a gymnastics coach to help me with my tumbling. I feel like I can lern it the "proper" way, in terms of technique. But thats probably the number one reason for my mental blocks, I can't "throw" anything anymore. I have to do it right to be able to do a skill.

 

[OnceUponACheerleader]

Do yourself the worlds biggest favour and learn tumbling in a gymnastics environment! I quit gymnastics when I was 13, I had no more than a double back handspring, and level 1 (cheer) skills. Over 5 years in all-star cheer (I'm now turning 19) I am defiantly a better tumbler than when i started.. and I've been told many times by team mates in particular that I have 'pretty non-cheer' tumbling, and I credit that to my gymnastics background- HOWEVER when I go to the gymnastics club the CRINGE at my technique. I have a weak set, and weak blocking technique, and I don't have the core strength to twist 'properly'. I wish I had continued in a gymnastics coaching style (for tumbling) for my 5 years of cheer because I know I would've been getting conditioned properly, and learning the proper progressions.

As for progressions - I have a fairly comfortably full twist into a pit, and so the gymnastics coach said for me to start working 1 and a half twists. I asked how I was to do that, and he had to RE-teach me how to do just a simple 1/2 in order to properly progress to a 1 and a half. Then i asked why I don't just start 'chucking doubles' because I will never use a 1 and a half, and he couldn't believe that half twists are unheard of in cheer.

IMO It is a completely different way of learning tumbling (gymnastics vs cheer) and I believe that although the progressions and conditioning may seem useless and slow paced at the time- once you start learning elite skills (twisting skills, connection skills), they will come a lot quicker- and it will save your team mates and coaches from a heart attack when they watch a janky full or double twist.

ETA: Granted cheerleaders cannot compete a full in back out - but HOW do you think the olympic gymnasts learn skills like this? - how do you think they get to that high of a level of skill? It is because the style of coaching, and the progressions offered in gymnastics, I can guarantee when a gymnast first throws one of those skills- they know EXACTLY what they are doing!! Why? because the progressions have given them the spacial awareness, technique and strength needed to safely land. I know a USAG coach would NEVER say 'oh just chuck it....'.

 

[seein_starz]

A lot of people actually do pikes in cheer! It wouldn't hurt to learn!

 

[Matt Faherty]

IMO It is a completely different way of learning tumbling (gymnastics vs cheer) and I believe that although the progressions and conditioning may seem useless and slow paced at the time- once you start learning elite skills (twisting skills, connection skills), they will come a lot quicker- and it will save your team mates and coaches from a heart attack when they watch a janky full or double twist.

Not only will it save your coach's heart from attack, but it will also save your coach's back, shoulders, neck, (and so on) from spotting "janky" skills. I am constantly massaging knots, and correct muscle imbalances that i incur from spotting. Though, to be fair, most of those come from the beginners attempting BHS for the first time. But the worst comes from from kids working standing tucks for the first time, who often times seem to mentally throw away everything they practiced with drills, and attempt to actively give themselves concussions by rocketing their heads to the floor as fast as possible!

Also, @notyourcheermom, yes I'm from NY. And thank you for the kind words! I had almost nearly forgotten about analyzing your CP's skill videos, until you mentioned it. Glad to hear about the success at the new gym!

 

[cheer25mom]

Do yourself the worlds biggest favour and learn tumbling in a gymnastics environment! I quit gymnastics when I was 13, I had no more than a double back handspring, and level 1 (cheer) skills. Over 5 years in all-star cheer (I'm now turning 19) I am defiantly a better tumbler than when i started.. and I've been told many times by team mates in particular that I have 'pretty non-cheer' tumbling, and I credit that to my gymnastics background- HOWEVER when I go to the gymnastics club the CRINGE at my technique. I have a weak set, and weak blocking technique, and I don't have the core strength to twist 'properly'. I wish I had continued in a gymnastics coaching style (for tumbling) for my 5 years of cheer because I know I would've been getting conditioned properly, and learning the proper progressions.

As for progressions - I have a fairly comfortably full twist into a pit, and so the gymnastics coach said for me to start working 1 and a half twists. I asked how I was to do that, and he had to RE-teach me how to do just a simple 1/2 in order to properly progress to a 1 and a half. Then i asked why I don't just start 'chucking doubles' because I will never use a 1 and a half, and he couldn't believe that half twists are unheard of in cheer.

IMO It is a completely different way of learning tumbling (gymnastics vs cheer) and I believe that although the progressions and conditioning may seem useless and slow paced at the time- once you start learning elite skills (twisting skills, connection skills), they will come a lot quicker- and it will save your team mates and coaches from a heart attack when they watch a janky full or double twist.

ETA: Granted cheerleaders cannot compete a full in back out - but HOW do you think the olympic gymnasts learn skills like this? - how do you think they get to that high of a level of skill? It is because the style of coaching, and the progressions offered in gymnastics, I can guarantee when a gymnast first throws one of those skills- they know EXACTLY what they are doing!! Why? because the progressions have given them the spacial awareness, technique and strength needed to safely land. I know a USAG coach would NEVER say 'oh just chuck it....'.

Our gym teaches solid half twists before fulls, even though they never get used in competition because that is the proper progression.


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[Official OWECheer]

Do yourself the worlds biggest favour and learn tumbling in a gymnastics environment! I quit gymnastics when I was 13, I had no more than a double back handspring, and level 1 (cheer) skills. Over 5 years in all-star cheer (I'm now turning 19) I am defiantly a better tumbler than when i started.. and I've been told many times by team mates in particular that I have 'pretty non-cheer' tumbling, and I credit that to my gymnastics background- HOWEVER when I go to the gymnastics club the CRINGE at my technique. I have a weak set, and weak blocking technique, and I don't have the core strength to twist 'properly'. I wish I had continued in a gymnastics coaching style (for tumbling) for my 5 years of cheer because I know I would've been getting conditioned properly, and learning the proper progressions.

As for progressions - I have a fairly comfortably full twist into a pit, and so the gymnastics coach said for me to start working 1 and a half twists. I asked how I was to do that, and he had to RE-teach me how to do just a simple 1/2 in order to properly progress to a 1 and a half. Then i asked why I don't just start 'chucking doubles' because I will never use a 1 and a half, and he couldn't believe that half twists are unheard of in cheer.

IMO It is a completely different way of learning tumbling (gymnastics vs cheer) and I believe that although the progressions and conditioning may seem useless and slow paced at the time- once you start learning elite skills (twisting skills, connection skills), they will come a lot quicker- and it will save your team mates and coaches from a heart attack when they watch a janky full or double twist.

ETA: Granted cheerleaders cannot compete a full in back out - but HOW do you think the olympic gymnasts learn skills like this? - how do you think they get to that high of a level of skill? It is because the style of coaching, and the progressions offered in gymnastics, I can guarantee when a gymnast first throws one of those skills- they know EXACTLY what they are doing!! Why? because the progressions have given them the spacial awareness, technique and strength needed to safely land. I know a USAG coach would NEVER say 'oh just chuck it....'.

Bringing back an old thread, but I LOVE what I'm reading here. I really wish more cheer teams used gymnastics tumbling skills, I've never seen pikes or Onodis in cheer, and the only team I've ever seen do halves was Greenup back in '84 (the video is on YouTube). It would look a heck of a lot more creative that the standard ROBHS(T/LO/Full). Halves would allow for more creative transitions, and so would other tumbling skills.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Bringing back an old thread, but I LOVE what I'm reading here. I really wish more cheer teams used gymnastics tumbling skills, I've never seen pikes or Onodis in cheer, and the only team I've ever seen do halves was Greenup back in '84 (the video is on YouTube). It would look a heck of a lot more creative that the standard ROBHS(T/LO/Full). Halves would allow for more creative transitions, and so would other tumbling skills.

Kiara N. has done Onodis in routines before, I don't remember what year, but she definitely has. Maybe Cali Coed 2010? 2011? I have definitely seen them on multiple occasions by other people too, don't remember teams though.

 

[TheVipersMom]

Bringing back an old thread, but I LOVE what I'm reading here. I really wish more cheer teams used gymnastics tumbling skills, I've never seen pikes or Onodis in cheer, and the only team I've ever seen do halves was Greenup back in '84 (the video is on YouTube). It would look a heck of a lot more creative that the standard ROBHS(T/LO/Full). Halves would allow for more creative transitions, and so would other tumbling skills.

Our restricted 5 first pass, does a beautiful onodi through to full!

stars vipers royal Cobras

Like it's seriously perfect

 

[Official OWECheer]

Our restricted 5 first pass, does a beautiful onodi through to full!

stars vipers royal Cobras - youtube

Like it's seriously perfect

Is this it? @1:28?
Obsessed with this routine.

 

[TheVipersMom]

Is this it? @1:28?
Obsessed with this routine.

Yes lol

 

[Official OWECheer]

Yes lol

The uniforms look gorgeous on the floor! They match the NCA backdrop.

 

[NoDramaCheerMama]

Is this it? @1:28?
Obsessed with this routine.

Wow! I love this team!

 

[TheVipersMom]

Wow! I love this team!

Thanks! I am biased but I love that team too... I can't wait to see it all come together! This was 2 months ago they have been working on their jumps and everything else! They are getting better! Can't wait to see them come NCA!! Ready to see your daughters team too! I bet they look great!