All-Star What Should Penalty Be For Cheating?

[cheer8]

Haven't Olympic relay teams (track) had their medals stripped because it was later learned that a teammate had taken performance enhancing drugs etc.? I mean there is precedence in this situation and as much as it "hurts" the teammates (whether they were knowledgable or not about the "cheating") only the harshest punishment will work as a deterrent. A slap on the hand will only lead to continued abuse of the rules.

You are RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT! and there has been alot of slapping on the hand! Thats why it's gotten to this point today!

 

[yojaehs]

Your gyms name and illegal athlete name should be posted as the boards banner the week of Worlds!

 

[yojaehs]

Your gyms name and illegal athlete name should be posted as the boards banner the week of Worlds!

Due to this post I was awarded the shimmy tastic trophy therefore, this should be the penalty!! LOL

 

[championprincess]

As an event producer, I would like to offer a few non-discussed sides of this issue.

First off, this is an issue that is certainly not only related to World's divisions, therefore is very much in need of a punishment that is not World's related. Some gyms will never field a World's team, and therefore needs to be repercussions for them. World's can tie in as well, but cannot solely be based on that.

Second, I feel that the punishment needs to come from the USASF, and not just the event producer for 2 different reasons. 1) If the punishment is that they aren't allowed to come back to my events for a time period, all I'm doing is sending them to my competitor. This makes it in the best interest of the event producers to overlook/not make a big deal of a team that is in violation. About the best we can do is to have them forfeit & compete in the correct division next time. 2) It's a USASF rule, however, there is no back up for the EP that is happy/willing to play by the rules. I'll be the first to enforce a rule, but as it is right now, there's no one to back the EP up, for anything that is outside of a World's division at my bid event.

Third, I think that a LOT of this will be fixed by the required registration, however, the penalties must be laid out as well, or is just remains unenforceable. I've been told that the Compliance Committee is looking into this.

Lastly, Here's my 2 cents on how I think this should work and be enforced.
Any team that is found, by the EP, to be in violation is required to be turned in to the USASF. There would be a financial penalty for that program ($1K for 1st Violation, $5K for 2nd, $10K for 3rd, etc.) Gyms should be encouraged to add to their Code of Conduct that a parent responsible for any violations would be responsible for any related fees. There should also be a penalty for EP that do not turn in programs that are found to be in violation (Bids revoked, as well as financial penalties).

I hope that helps a little to look at this from a different side this issue.

 

[championprincess]

Sorry...I forgot to state that any money brought in by the USASF over these violations should go to the Scholarship Fund.

I doubt anyone would argue with making a positive out of the negatives!

 

[ufomom]

If there are monetary fines, I think they should be larger than $1000 or $5000.

 

[yojaehs]

USASF has rules for safety, and has age/div rules. Why are the punishments for safety violations so clear but other rules so unclear? I feel that USASF needs to make the punishments CLEAR starting now. As much as I respect Rockstar and hate this situation, I feel that this opens and shows a bigger issue. IF the season rule passes, what is the punishment IF its violated? What are the punishments? There are more but I think that and age/div violations should be addressed CLEARLY!

 

[coach.elle]

I hate this. If we want anything done about it right now, we have to be a bunch of tattle tales. We need photo ids!

 

[Mom Jeans]

As far the EP having no incentive, I appreciate your honesty this hasn't been discussed in this thread, but it's been discussed and in trying to defend the EP some have shot this down. Cheating teams can also argue that they have to cheat to not lose customers.
How about it's the morally correct thing to do? When I am at a USASF sanctioned event I have the expectation that everything is on the up and up, I guess it's been a false sense of security. If the EP is going to offer bids to the biggest USASF event, then the rules should be followed, at all of the EP’s events. Don't you think you'd gain customers as being known as a highly respected EP? Who would be held responsible if some unforeseen catastrophic injury happens to this over age/under age/person using someone else’s identity?
I think penalties should be cumulative and carried from one event to another if they are USASF sanctioned events.
I like the idea of a financial penalty but I can see some gyms that think, um for $1000, I'll take that chance. I can also see this cost being passed down to the customer.
Does USASF have cheating/sanctions language in the agreement when a gym becomes a member? If not, they should. If USASF has a rule that a level 5 athlete needs to be released from a gym and membership at that gym is for a certain amount of time, then the athlete needs to know their gym is following certain requirements as well.
I have to say that I consider this to be such a serious topic, age grids, safety rules mean nothing if they aren't followed and yet I'm surprised at the lack of interest from people that usually have so much to offer in regards to rules and regulations. It's like that creepy relative that no one talks about.

 

[socratesofcheer]

I have to say that I consider this to be such a serious topic, age grids, safety rules mean nothing if they aren't followed and yet I'm surprised at the lack of interest from people that usually have so much to offer in regards to rules and regulations. It's like that creepy relative that no one talks about.

I have to disagree with you on this part. This topic has been brought up countless times and discussed over and over and over. The problem is, there have been a few solutions provided to the USASF by Kingston and for whatever reason these solutions were declined.
At the NACCC meeting this year Jody Melton brought up the RFID tags and the entire room laughed. They laughed because they had no idea what he was talking about and how easy it would be to implement.
I think the normal cast of characters that you see debating rules has become frustrated and defeated, that's why they are not debating this topic.....again.

 

[Mom Jeans]

I have to disagree with you on this part. This topic has been brought up countless times and discussed over and over and over. The problem is, there have been a few solutions provided to the USASF by Kingston and for whatever reason these solutions were declined.
At the NACCC meeting this year Jody Melton brought up the RFID tags and the entire room laughed. They laughed because they had no idea what he was talking about and how easy it would be to implement.
I think the normal cast of characters that you see debating rules has become frustrated and defeated, that's why they are not debating this topic.....again.

Sorry I should clarify, I meant on this thread only, as much as I try to proof read I usually leave something out.

 

[Mom Jeans]

and I think it's sad that people feel defeated

 

[King]

Unenforceable rules do not help the sport and just make the ruling governing body look weak. If you are going to put something in place you must be willing to follow through on your rule AND be able to catch someone if they are cheating.

Photo ID cards are a big PITA. They are great in theory, but as long as high schoolers are running warmups and every little piece of the logistics at a competition then I don't see them being very affective. I don't think the average 18 year old really cares if I was cheating, and even if she did what female is gonna stand up to a coach who looks like he might tear her head off?

If you want to police ages, you need a system to register the ages first. And that system a gym CANNOT be part of the athlete registration part. Then a shady gym can just enter shady details for that athlete.

It is like they say, if I am going to jump out an airplane, I am going to pack my own chute.

 

[yojaehs]

Well as far as the USASF photo ID cards, MY gym got them 2 MONTHS AFTER Worlds, what was the point? I'm all for it but USASF or someone needs to step up to the plate and organize a way to track and register athletes and gyms and come up with a concrete way to enforce those that break the rules. I really don't care what the rule is but make one and enforce it!

Side note:
I also believe that TEAMS should register for division/level. I think you should be able to move up and down lrg and sm or even coed - ag but once you move down and compete at a lower level you SHOULD NOT be allowed to move back up. I believe this would help avoid sandbagging. Or something along that line.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I have to disagree with you on this part. This topic has been brought up countless times and discussed over and over and over. The problem is, there have been a few solutions provided to the USASF by Kingston and for whatever reason these solutions were declined.
At the NACCC meeting this year Jody Melton brought up the RFID tags and the entire room laughed. They laughed because they had no idea what he was talking about and how easy it would be to implement.
I think the normal cast of characters that you see debating rules has become frustrated and defeated, that's why they are not debating this topic.....again.

Agree. So many of these current hot issues if you could go back and read the threads on the ProX forum, then the imissthexboards versions 1 and 2 they were discussed then as well. Same thoughts, same desire for change and rules enforcement across the board. The difference is now that major players are bringing the issues up they are at least being considered. Those that have seats at the table are saying something needs to be done, where in years past that was not the case. Or if it was done the general cheer public was not hearing about it. IMHO that this forum and the way that it is run has also helped to give voice to those who feel voiceless in the system.

Until USASF establishes concrete enforceable penalties for those caught and proven to have cheated then neither event producers or gyms have no incentive not to cheat other than their own moral code. In order to do this, they must implement a system similar to the RFID tag system discussed earlier this year. That would at least be a start. Thanks to Acedad and those who have urged people to turn in cheaters, but we need a better system. That starts with the RFID. JMO.