All-Star What Should Penalty Be For Cheating?

[cheer8]

Guess all those cheaters out there are going to have to watch their back now! B/c everyone is tired of it and standing up for the "Integrity of the sport"! I like this!

 

[travnation80]

Because their is no penalty that is what allowed them to remove that athlete and carry on as nothing happen. But now that social media has boomed and can reach so many trust me going forward if it happens everyone will no and will reference them.

didn't cheer athletics wildcats have an issue.... no one remembers CA as the gym that cheats.
they gave up the paid bid. and went to another comp without this individual and got another one.

one person doesnt make or break a team. I can give plenty of examples where a star athlete was out and the team still did amazing.
I believe it is best to punish the athlete and the gym in a way that doesnt affect the other athletes.

there should be a fine involved with this. If you knew that cheating would result in a $5,000 fine, you wouldnt do it. And the gyms could also make athletes sign a waiver saying, if you knowingly falsify any documents that lead to a fine, you will solely be responsible.

Therefore it won't affect anyone else on the team. And yes i know $5,000 is a lot. But thats the point. People won't cheat if it will cost them a lot of money. That's an entire large team's tuiton for one month.

 

[F!ERCE]

From an athlete (or athlete age) POV, suspending a team from Worlds seems really, really unfair.

Say I'm on Semi-Limited Unlimited All Girl Junior Senior 5 at F!ERCE All-Stars. It's a week before NCA and my flyer Susie gets hurt trying a ticktock, so my coach calls in Susie's older sister that used to cheer to fly in place for Susie. I know Susie is age ineligible and so does my coach.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that any coach who knows they're cheating won't change their mind about if an athlete brings it up. So what am I going to do about it? Do I boycott NCA? Do I tell my coaches I'm not going to compete? Do I go join another level 5 team a week before one of the biggest Nationals? Ultimately, any of the options will hurt every other person on my team. An athlete really can't control the actions of their coaches and should NOT be punished for them. The age ineligible athlete should be punished, the gym owner (or whoever is in charge of rostering) should be punished, but not every kid on the team. They're just pawns in this game who shouldn't be robbed of an experience because of their coaches actions. To me, that's putting the blame on the wrong person.

I don't have a perfect solution to prevent cheating, but I don't think banning a team from Worlds is in anyone's best interest.

 

[cheer8]

Any decision made will hurt everyone a little. So Cheaters be prepared... If I was a kid on a team and my coach was cheating I would stand up and say something about it bc I would be just as guilty knowing that this was happening

 

[Just-a-Mom]

How do you punish the owner without punishing the athletes?

Money--they'll just pass that cost along to the athletes.
Not competing--that hurts the athletes.
No bids--again, hurts the athletes
?????

There really is no way to punish the gym owner in a way that doesn't hurt the rest of the gym. So I guess as an athlete you'd have to reeeeeally know your gym isn't going to do this when you sign up. I stand by what I said earlier--I'm much more concerned about the teams doing the right thing than the ones that aren't.

And if you are "mature" enough to be on a Worlds level team, you (or parents would be even better--whoever is paying the gym) had better be ready to stand your ground when your gym is willing to risk YOUR DREAMS for something they know is wrong. If there was a rule in place stating that a gym could lose their chance to go to Worlds for a year if they use an overage athlete, I'd bet my kids' tuition that SOMEONE would be jumping up and down to tell that gym owner that "No the #$%@ you're NOT going to risk MY KID'S dream for this...you'd better find another way to get this done"

 

[F!ERCE]

Any decision made will hurt everyone a little. So Cheaters be prepared... If I was a kid on a team and my coach was cheating I would stand up and say something about it bc I would be just as guilty knowing that this was happening

Even if you say something, what are the chances your coaches are going to change their mind after they already worked in the age ineligible athlete? If they didn't know that the athlete was age ineligible, I certainly would hope they would take them out once informed. But if they already knew, I don't think they're going to be too concerned with the opinion of some 15-year-old kid, especially since it seems the obvious one goal in mind is WIN.

An athlete in this situation really doesn't have many options unless they plan on abandoning their team in the middle of the season. Finding another level 5 team in their area with an open spot for them is pretty improbable unless they live in a highly populated "cheer area". Most kids would be stuck.

 

[F!ERCE]

How do you punish the owner without punishing the athletes?

Money--they'll just pass that cost along to the athletes.
Not competing--that hurts the athletes.
No bids--again, hurts the athletes
?????

There really is no way to punish the gym owner in a way that doesn't hurt the rest of the gym. So I guess as an athlete you'd have to reeeeeally know your gym isn't going to do this when you sign up. I stand by what I said earlier--I'm much more concerned about the teams doing the right thing than the ones that aren't.

And if you are "mature" enough to be on a Worlds level team, you (or parents would be even better--whoever is paying the gym) had better be ready to stand your ground when your gym is willing to risk YOUR DREAMS for something they know is wrong. If there was a rule in place stating that a gym could lose their chance to go to Worlds for a year if they use an overage athlete, I'd bet my kids' tuition that SOMEONE would be jumping up and down to tell that gym owner that "No the #$%@ you're NOT going to risk MY KID'S dream for this...you'd better find another way to get this done"

I feel like I'm playing devil's advocate to every argument here lol.

If most parents knew the rules, I'd say this is reasonable. We have an educated group around here who pretty much knows the rulebook front to back, but what about the majority of parents that don't? I cheered all-star for 8 years and I guarantee my mother (who came to every competition, drove to every practice, yada yada...was definitely involved) couldn't tell you a single rule.

 

[HeyimA]

From an athlete (or athlete age) POV, suspending a team from Worlds seems really, really unfair.

Say I'm on Semi-Limited Unlimited All Girl Junior Senior 5 at F!ERCE All-Stars. It's a week before NCA and my flyer Susie gets hurt trying a ticktock, so my coach calls in Susie's older sister that used to cheer to fly in place for Susie. I know Susie is age ineligible and so does my coach.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that any coach who knows they're cheating won't change their mind about if an athlete brings it up. So what am I going to do about it? Do I boycott NCA? Do I tell my coaches I'm not going to compete? Do I go join another level 5 team a week before one of the biggest Nationals? Ultimately, any of the options will hurt every other person on my team. An athlete really can't control the actions of their coaches and should NOT be punished for them. The age ineligible athlete should be punished, the gym owner (or whoever is in charge of rostering) should be punished, but not every kid on the team. They're just pawns in this game who shouldn't be robbed of an experience because of their coaches actions. To me, that's putting the blame on the wrong person.

I don't have a perfect solution to prevent cheating, but I don't think banning a team from Worlds is in anyone's best interest.

Things like that happen ALL the time. This was our first chance for a bid and we had 3 fills ins(2 sick 1 injured) on one worlds team all age eligible, one was replaced the Saturday of competition. Yes injuries are unfortunate but it's cheerleading it's going to happen and it's happened on almost every team I've been on. Just because an injury occurs doesn't make it right to use someone that isn't the appropriate age, coaches should be held to a higher standard in knowing that it's wrong. Being that it's fairly easy to get away with right now and there is no set punishment or anything very severe that has happened to programs that have cheated in the past the risk is worth the gain here. So until someone is made an example of and the consequences are far worse then the accomplishment it's going to continue to happen.

 

[ufomom]

Even if you say something, what are the chances your coaches are going to change their mind after they already worked in the age ineligible athlete? If they didn't know that the athlete was age ineligible, I certainly would hope they would take them out once informed. But if they already knew, I don't think they're going to be too concerned with the opinion of some 15-year-old kid, especially since it seems the obvious one goal in mind is WIN.

An athlete in this situation really doesn't have many options unless they plan on abandoning their team in the middle of the season. Finding another level 5 team in their area with an open spot for them is pretty improbable unless they live in a highly populated "cheer area". Most kids would be stuck.

Which is why the consequence has to be grave enough that a 15 year old kid does not have to be the one to keep someone considering dishonesty in line. Maybe the beheading consequence is the one to go with? (Can't find the sarcasm indicator, but pretend like it is there re: beheading.)

 

[Mclovin]

Unfortunately in this little thing we call life, it's just not fair sometimes. We all suffer the consequences of someone else's bad choices from time to time. If an athlete is lying about his/her age, that's different. In that instance, the athlete should be banned from competing. But if a coach KNOWS an athlete's age and chooses to still use that person, the entire team should be sanctioned to some degree. That's the unfortunate reality of being in the wrong gym at the wrong time. And if anyone on that team knows the athlete is the wrong age, they are just as guilty as the coach who allowed it. Having no other options to compete is not an excuse. It's wrong plain and simple.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

I feel like I'm playing devil's advocate to every argument here lol.

If most parents knew the rules, I'd say this is reasonable. We have an educated group around here who pretty much knows the rulebook front to back, but what about the majority of parents that don't? I cheered all-star for 8 years and I guarantee my mother (who came to every competition, drove to every practice, yada yada...was definitely involved) couldn't tell you a single rule.

Devil's advocate is always my favorite person!

Makes me think about what I'm saying more--and even I have to see the other side someimtes!

I guess my argument here would be that YOU, as the athlete know it's against the rules. Even if you don't before-hand, someone on your team is going to say something (even if it's just end of practice chit chat of "I can't believe Susie is going to fill in for us! She's so awesome...but I hope we don't get caught!!!" or whatever...). Then athlete tells mom/dad and then they say "WHAT??? Nope--not going to happen. We'll just see about that!!!"

I know cheer parents are some of the most fiercely protective parents out there. When it comes to someone messing with THEIR KID'S hopes and dreams, H3!! will freeze over before they're going to let that happen.

Tougher punishments are the way to get parents on board with telling these gym owners we aren't putting up with it anymore.

 

[F!ERCE]

Things like that happen ALL the time. This was our first chance for a bid and we had 3 fills ins(2 sick 1 injured) on one worlds team all age eligible, one was replaced the Saturday of competition. Yes injuries are unfortunate but it's cheerleading it's going to happen and it's happened on almost every team I've been on. Just because an injury occurs doesn't make it right to use someone that isn't the appropriate age, coaches should be held to a higher standard in knowing that it's wrong. Being that it's fairly easy to get away with right now and there is no set punishment or anything very severe that has happened to programs that have cheated in the past the risk is worth the gain here. So until someone is made an example of and the consequences are far worse then the accomplishment it's going to continue to happen.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I am certainly NOT a proponent of cheating and do not think that it's acceptable in any situation whether it be due to an injury (was just making an example) or...whatever. I am all for heavy consequences to keep it from happening, I just think that there is a solution that will less directly harm an entire team or gym full of athletes.

 

[F!ERCE]

Devil's advocate is always my favorite person! Makes me think about what I'm saying more--and even I have to see the other side someimtes!

I guess my argument here would be that YOU, as the athlete know it's against the rules. Even if you don't before-hand, someone on your team is going to say something (even if it's just end of practice chit chat of "I can't believe Susie is going to fill in for us! She's so awesome...but I hope we don't get caught!!!" or whatever...). Then athlete tells mom/dad and then they say "WHAT??? Nope--not going to happen. We'll just see about that!!!"

I know cheer parents are some of the most fiercely protective parents out there. When it comes to someone messing with THEIR KID'S hopes and dreams, H3!! will freeze over before they're going to let that happen.

Tougher punishments are the way to get parents on board with telling these gym owners we aren't putting up with it anymore.

I totally agree that something should be said, no doubt! I've just been part of teams where not many people knew the actual rules (nothing against anyone, just a different kind of participation), so I'm seeing it from a less - for lack of a better word - knowledgeable POV. Maybe that kinda group is more in the minority than I think it is (which I hope is the case), which would probably change how I'm seeing the situation.

I am 100% with ya on the "something should be said" point, though.

 

[p.o.k.]

It is too bad the accusing gym in an age situation is often looked down upon more that the offending gym. I think the repercussions to an accuser prevents many from reporting offenses - even if they can prove it. Original birth certificates are a good start, but a gym intent on cheating will find a way around this.

I feel that most parents know the rules. Coaches and the parents put the athlete in this position and in fact I am sure most of the athlete's team mates will know it is cheating too. You may argue with younger teams this may not be the case, but there needs to be penalties for this situation too.

Look a level 5 world's team is full of experienced athletes, will have experienced coaches, and will have knowledgeable parents - they all know it is cheating. This goes for the too old athlete as well as the too young of an athlete. At this level you are not only talking about titles but potential bids that include a monetary reward. The penalty has to be stiff. Hopefully a registration system will help.

 

[cheer8]

Even if you say something, what are the chances your coaches are going to change their mind after they already worked in the age ineligible athlete? If they didn't know that the athlete was age ineligible, I certainly would hope they would take them out once informed. But if they already knew, I don't think they're going to be too concerned with the opinion of some 15-year-old kid, especially since it seems the obvious one goal in mind is WIN.

An athlete in this situation really doesn't have many options unless they plan on abandoning their team in the middle of the season. Finding another level 5 team in their area with an open spot for them is pretty improbable unless they live in a highly populated "cheer area". Most kids would be stuck.