Where Competitive Cheer Stands According to Title IX expert & Attorney

[Deleted member 15]

I'm kind of confused by this. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing just yet because I have a question-- is this "Cheer Sport" name being used to distinguish competitive cheerleading from sideline cheerleading, or AllStar from High School & College? To say what "we" do isn't cheerleading isn't fair to the school cheerleaders, who are judged by "crowd leading ability" (and it's a pretty big chunk at the high school level), but I understand if you're speaking on behalf of AllStar only

Competitive from Sideline.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Who is cheersafety?

Kimberly Archie from the National Cheer Safety Foundation.

On that note, may I ask that people who want others to know who they are put it in their signature. I know many people has said who they are someplace on this board, but sometimes it's hard to remember and/or find where it was said.

 

[ACEDAD]

*already answered.

 

[cdscheergirls]

What is modern cheer now is a discipline of gymnastics. I like the name National Competitive Stunt & Tumble Association. I even think the format is great. They isolated the skill sets and still have the 2 and half minutes we are used to. There are statistics. Safety was taken into consideration. Sad part of all of this is I can't imagine how much work it took these coaches to create all this especially without Varsity or any cheer companies help. Now an industry icon testifies against them, it has to feel like a big slap in the face. They are the trailblazers. They are visionaries.

What about rallying behind these teams to show them how much we love NCSTA(formerly known as cheerleading lol)? Help them prove there are people who only compete and want this to be a sport whether that be in all stars, college or the Olympics.

Well I'm all for that! I'd also like to give a hand to the coaches who worked very hard to come up with the meet format last season. That was a HUGE task but one they knew had to be started. The format is by no means perfect and will undoubtedly undergo lots of refinements.

I was able to see a meet at Maryland (right before a competition). It was definitely a CHANGE coming from years of All-Star. But I have to say, I really enjoyed it. The athletes were all highlighted. Lots of stunt, tumbling, pyramid heats etc. You could see the raw score that each "skill" had and then you saw how it was executed..just like gymnastics. It was really great and prolonged the experience from the whopping 2:30 seconds we are used to! It also really allowed people to start to UNDERSTAND what competitive cheer consists of. In fact, I saw a bunch of U of MD ladies basketball players who were watching and I heard one of them say something like..."Oh, I get it now...it's just so hard when you just see 1 quick routine. It's great to see the different elements separated out".

I am so excited to see how this evolves over the next four years. I'm SO PROUD that my girl is going to be a TERAPIN. My daughter is certainly not ready to give up cheerleading and now she can do it in the environment of her college experience. I'm also very grateful to the U of MD coaches and NCSTA for taking the infamous "first step". Who would have thought there would be all these angles/politics/differing view points on ..."Cheerleading"...or Not-So "Cheer" Leading.

Proud Momma in Maryland!

 

[ztaprincess]

No other universities have made cuts and counted competitive cheer in it's place.

thank you for answering my question. Now my next question would be could QU not rework their budget to include both teams (cheer and volleyball) just like the other schools have clearly reworked ways to include cheer as well as keep their other sports already in existence? Instead of eliminating one team why not find a way to have both so that both sets of athletes can have the benefits of being a varsity sport that they strive to be?

I know that people are talking about whether cheer is a sport but wouldn't it solve the court case for both parties if the school reworked their athletic department. If they were to do that then it would be fair on both sides and would not have a negative effect on cheer becoming a recognized sport in the future (which many think it could if the outcome sides with the volleyball team). If the other 6 universities can manage to do it without problems then there has to be a way QU can fix the situation for both sides.

 

[cheersafety]

thank you for answering my question. Now my next question would be could QU not rework their budget to include both teams (cheer and volleyball) just like the other schools have clearly reworked ways to include cheer as well as keep their other sports already in existence? Instead of eliminating one team why not find a way to have both so that both sets of athletes can have the benefits of being a varsity sport that they strive to be?

I know that people are talking about whether cheer is a sport but wouldn't it solve the court case for both parties if the school reworked their athletic department. If they were to do that then it would be fair on both sides and would not have a negative effect on cheer becoming a recognized sport in the future (which many think it could if the outcome sides with the volleyball team). If the other 6 universities can manage to do it without problems then there has to be a way QU can fix the situation for both sides.

Although I don't speak for the program it is my understanding that there are not any plans to cancel the competitive cheer team win or lose.

 

[juscheerthatisall]

oh I completely agree with you which is why in my first post i used the what if your child was a volleyball player. There are two sides and people are going to pick their sides. My point was really that people are attacking Jeff Webb when he was just doing what he thought was fair to those volleyball players. I think both sides have a case but IMO I think the volleyball team has a bigger case at this time but that could change in a year or 10 years. I am all for cheerleading being recognized as a sport but right now that isn't the case but in a handful of schools give them time and it could grow in numbers but the volleyball team already has those numbers. I don't think this case is set for the long run but more so for what is currently in their hands.

Does anyone know if at Maryland they cut and teams in order to make them a sport at the school? Or how about any of the other schools that are recognized?

The university is interested in how to best allocate funds yes I think the vollyball team should be given a fair shot, but the issue is they only hold a limited number of girls (11?) whereas cheerleading teams could hold 40+ if I gave you $50,000 and said offer athletic activities for boys would it make more since to fund a basketball team where only 10 people could make the team or a football team that could have 50+ players. This is the same prinicple QU used the issue is they never had to compare the two until they decided to call cheerleading a sport hence dipping from the same pot of funds

 

[juscheerthatisall]

And I am definitely gonna add on that in no way shape or form is Varsity 'pure evil' or Jeff Webb 'pure evil'. To paint that picture of anyone is ignorant.

Outside of this court case which we all have a lot of emotion about and a lot of questions (and to say myself I am not personally still upset about it would be a lie.. I am still mad. and I hope to God that after its over there is real clarification NOT just press statements) Varsity and Jeff Webb has done a lot of good.

Varsity helped me find wife. Has given me ton of enjoyment and opened opportunities I had never imagined I would get. So in ways I am highly thankful for them. Justin Carrier, the NCA guy at Varsity, is one of the smarter (I would not say smartest... too big a compliment for him, he might get a big head haha) guys in the industry and truly does care. There are great things about that company.

ARE there bad things? Yes. I am sure there are (and before you go listing them to prove a point). Do we truly believe they are all bad and not a single positive thing has ever come from them?

This whole situation needs to be kept in perspective because it is not as simple as he said she said. There are layers (perhaps like an onion.. or a parfait) to it all.

Im not sure why Jeff Webb would agree to testify but i do know how lawyers work, and you can be completely against a person and want them to lose yet your testimony could actually aid them in winning. For example if they told him according to title IX where it states ...... does cheerleading fit this criteria, he would have to say no if that was the truth in that context, then the question might be so can we say that cheerleading is a sport, and he would have to say no if it was the truth in that context. I am not saying that happened I am only saying that I can see how he could be coercied to provide validation to the plantiff even if it doesnt support his personal opinions, he may have only been stating facts not beliefs

 

[ztaprincess]

Although I don't speak for the program it is my understanding that there are not any plans to cancel the competitive cheer team win or lose.

and I hope that they don't cancel the cheer team, but i still would really like to see the Volleyball team back at the school. I know that this is a cheerleading forum, but I feel just as bad for those volleyball players for having their sport taken away as I would if they took a cheerleading team from a school. It is a really sticky mess that no sport should ever have to go through so I truly hope that they can come to conclusion where they can help both sides so there are no lost athletes on either side.

 

[kristenthegreat]

In reference to the case (and I am insanely late to this party, for my RL work I apologize)..I also have a question about the actual competitiveness of the volleyball squad. Having played both, I am disheartened that a college should have to ever come to this decision. But an important note is exactly HOW competitive is this volleyball squad. We're all assuming that because volleyball is a sport and they plan in a set number of regulated matches that they are 'competitive,' which is technically true. But I want to know if they are REALLY competitive: their win-loss record over the last few years, their recruitment pool, and are those girls holding their own on a court. If the program is floundering, if they are losing numbers while other sports are maintaining or growing (as seems to be the case with this cheer squad), then I can very much see why they were pulled. As the face of the university (from a marketing standpoint), which is a better sell: the average team or the team who's up-and-coming, making strides, etc (which could very well be this volleyball team, I'm not familiar with them)? Just because they're a 'sport', doesn't mean it's worth paying for. Same goes for any allstar squad..

 

[oldcheermom]

QU volleyball 2009-2010 season: won 4 out of 29 matches. Further breakdown: won 18 out of 105 games.

 

[juscheerthatisall]

QU volleyball 2009-2010 season: won 4 out of 29 matches. Further breakdown: won 18 out of 105 games.

well this puts this whole argument in different perspective....

 

[Mclovin]

Ok, but even if we decide to call what we do "sport cheer", Jeff Webb STILL testified against QU's "sport cheer" team, correct?? He testified that their competitive program was not a sport. So I'm still stuck in all this mess of confusion...

If he had testified specifically that their sideline cheerleaders didn't qualify as a sport, then I would have no concerns as I would most definitely agree. But no matter how much we try to rationalize this out, he still testified regarding the comp program.

 

[King]

He testified 'cheerleading' is not a sport. It's not. It's a sideline activity. What we do is Sport Cheer.

So if they asked if Sport Cheer is a sport there is less holding the sport back. There is no sidelines. There is no name confusion.

So when asked is Sport Cheer a sport? Why could anyone say its not?

Sent from my Droid Incredible

 

[cheersafety]

He testified 'cheerleading' is not a sport. It's not. It's a sideline activity. What we do is Sport Cheer.

So if they asked if Sport Cheer is a sport there is less holding the sport back. There is no sidelines. There is no name confusion.

So when asked is Sport Cheer a sport? Why could anyone say its not?

Sent from my Droid Incredible

He testified that the Quinnipiac University competitive cheer team is not a sport.