Where Competitive Cheer Stands According to Title IX expert & Attorney

[King]

Oh, gotcha...Ok, so you're kind of like an attorney. Like if I'm looking for someone to represent me in a case or a lawsuit, I'd hire you or pay you to represent me if my daughter was injured?

She's a rhombus. Haven't you been paying attention? Haha

 

[juscheerthatisall]

I think this is the hardest thing to wrap our heads around BECAUSE it is so simple to us (the people knowledgable and in the thick of it). So you have to decide what is important to you and what really matters. Being called a sport? Lumping all the types of 'cheerleading' (the sport and non sport alike) together? When you lump everything under one giant category you open yourself to lawyer and legal wiggle room.

Be prepared, this is about to get deep.

Stop reading if you don't your head to hurt.

For our discussion today we need to know one fact from your old 8th grade geometry class. Quadrilaterals are ANY 4 sided geometric figures. Picture examples of this: http://image.absoluteastronomy.com/images/encyclopediaimages/q/qu/quadrilateral_hierarchy.png



I should have stopped reading, and I thought title ix was confusing.....lol

 

[Mclovin]

My oh my oh my! lol

Ok, Kingston, to your question about whether ground bound squads are a sport, I ask you a question instead . . . Is machine pitch baseball a sport? Or does baseball only become a sport when it's done exactly how we see the pros do it?? I say ground bound competitive cheer is BORING but if they are competing and exerting physical energy, jumping, tumbling, dance, motions -- ABSOLUTELY it is a sport. Boring maybe, but definitely a sport!! If we took field goals out of football would it still be a sport??

The Sixth -- experts don't get subpoenaed. They are hired to testify on your client's behalf to help them win a case.

Oh and Kingston, just to go along with your geometry lesson -- Jeff Webb testified to help the triangle prove that quadrilaterals are just wannabe squares! lol ;)

 

[cheersafety]

Oh, gotcha...Ok, so you're kind of like an attorney. Like if I'm looking for someone to represent me in a case or a lawsuit, I'd hire you or pay you to represent me if my daughter was injured?

Are you being serious?

 

[King]

My oh my oh my! lol

Ok, Kingston, to your question about whether ground bound squads are a sport, I ask you a question instead . . . Is machine pitch baseball a sport? Or does baseball only become a sport when it's done exactly how we see the pros do it?? I say ground bound competitive cheer is BORING but if they are competing and exerting physical energy, jumping, tumbling, dance, motions -- ABSOLUTELY it is a sport. Boring maybe, but definitely a sport!! If we took field goals out of football would it still be a sport??

The Sixth -- experts don't get subpoenaed. They are hired to testify on your client's behalf to help them win a case.

Oh and Kingston, just to go along with your geometry lesson -- Jeff Webb testified to help the triangle prove that quadrilaterals are just wannabe squares! lol ;)

I guess I don't understand machine pitch baseball. What is it? Baseball is not my cup of tea. I watch the pros but anything below that I dont really know what all goes on.

As for the ground bound cheerleaders, with extremely limited tumbling allowed ( I believe none used to be allowed) how would you classify them any different than dancers.. who follow the same general characteristics?

And, here is a big one, if sideline cheerleading was outlawed tomorrow would competitive cheerleading still be here? For high school and college squads that compete I think it would all go away. There would be no reason to have high school or college cheerleading without the sidelines.

If there was a law passed tomorrow that said all competition style cheerleading was outlawed would sideline cheerleading still be here? Yes, most definitely, because that is their main purpose.

So no matter college or high school the main purpose of cheerleading is to cheer on the sidelines. If your main goal is not sideline cheerleading, then you arent doing cheerleading.

 

[Mclovin]

Machine pitch baseball is the same sport, except a machine pitches the ball instead of a pitcher. It's for young boys who are just learning to play. They start with coach pitch, then move on to machine pitch, then to baseball as we know it with an actual person pitching the ball. To me, baseball with a machine pitching the ball would be like us coaches going out and basing all stunts, pyramids and baskets. It's for proper progressions with safety in mind. Baseball is missing an element of the sport when a coach and/or machine is pitching the game.

And the video you posted of the ground bound squad in Ohio had all the elements of cheer in it except stunts, pyramids and baskets. If you're saying because they had limited tumbling abilities they aren't a sport, then does that mean our level 1 2 and 3 all star cheerleaders don't compete in a sport?? That statement confused me a little.

Now, as far as the sideline vs. competitive discussion, I guess I agree with that. At the high school or college level, competitive cheer wouldn't exist without the sidelines. In a school atmosphere, I don't think it should. At a school their primary focus would be leading the crowds at games, but that doesn't mean their OTHER focus of competitive cheer shouldn't be the sport side of what they're doing. Why can't they both coexist peacefully together?? It's really not that hard of a concept to me. I am 16 years old. I am a cheerleader. I lead the crowd in chants and cheers on Friday nights which I do for fun. I practice 5 days a week to compete in the other side of cheerleading, the sport side, on various weekends. Why does cheerleading have to fall in line with the way every other sport is defined? Why can't we be different in our own right? If I only do sideline cheer, I don't compete in a sport. If I do competitive cheer AND sidelines, I compete in a sport. It just seems so simple to me.

 

[Mclovin]

Ok, I tried to edit my post because I realized after posting it that my question about levels 1 2 and 3 cheerleaders not competing a sport doesn't make sense in this instance because they DO stunt. So ignore that part of my post. :)

 

[King]

Machine pitch baseball is the same sport, except a machine pitches the ball instead of a pitcher. It's for young boys who are just learning to play. They start with coach pitch, then move on to machine pitch, then to baseball as we know it with an actual person pitching the ball. To me, baseball with a machine pitching the ball would be like us coaches going out and basing all stunts, pyramids and baskets. It's for proper progressions with safety in mind. Baseball is missing an element of the sport when a coach and/or machine is pitching the game.

And the video you posted of the ground bound squad in Ohio had all the elements of cheer in it except stunts, pyramids and baskets. If you're saying because they had limited tumbling abilities they aren't a sport, then does that mean our level 1 2 and 3 all star cheerleaders don't compete in a sport?? That statement confused me a little.

Now, as far as the sideline vs. competitive discussion, I guess I agree with that. At the high school or college level, competitive cheer wouldn't exist without the sidelines. In a school atmosphere, I don't think it should. At a school their primary focus would be leading the crowds at games, but that doesn't mean their OTHER focus of competitive cheer shouldn't be the sport side of what they're doing. Why can't they both coexist peacefully together?? It's really not that hard of a concept to me. I am 16 years old. I am a cheerleader. I lead the crowd in chants and cheers on Friday nights which I do for fun. I practice 5 days a week to compete in the other side of cheerleading, the sport side, on various weekends. Why does cheerleading have to fall in line with the way every other sport is defined? Why can't we be different in our own right? If I only do sideline cheer, I don't compete in a sport. If I do competitive cheer AND sidelines, I compete in a sport. It just seems so simple to me.

Thanks for the baseball lesson!

I guess the more important question is those girls that competed in Ohio... are they still competing cheerleading? If you take away stunts, baskets, and pyramids is it still cheerleading? If you take away the tumbling, is it still cheerleading? What elements define 'cheerleading'? And are those elements athletic?

And it was like I was telling KB last night. I think you call the 'sport' part of cheerleading something else. Sport Cheer. I know I keep harping on it, but how many problems would it solve? There are Sport Cheer teams that just do Sport Cheer. There are cheerleading teams who's main goal is sidelines, but sometimes they go compete at Sport Cheer Events. The Sport Cheer part can be regulated and administered. The Cheerleading part can go on being a club.

 

[Mclovin]

Thanks for the baseball lesson!

I guess the more important question is those girls that competed in Ohio... are they still competing cheerleading? If you take away stunts, baskets, and pyramids is it still cheerleading? If you take away the tumbling, is it still cheerleading? What elements define 'cheerleading'? And are those elements athletic?

And it was like I was telling KB last night. I think you call the 'sport' part of cheerleading something else. Sport Cheer. I know I keep harping on it, but how many problems would it solve? There are Sport Cheer teams that just do Sport Cheer. There are cheerleading teams who's main goal is sidelines, but sometimes they go compete at Sport Cheer Events. The Sport Cheer part can be regulated and administered. The Cheerleading part can go on being a club.

If you take out the stunting AND tumbling, then we're back to pretty much a sideline activity. I think we can all agree that competitive cheer without BOTH of those elements is not a sport. But you take out just one and I think it would still be defined as a sport. Power Tumbling is a sport and that's all they do is tumble. So a cheer routine without stunts but WITH tumbling to me is still a sport.

I am in total agreement with you that the competitive side of cheerleading should be called sport cheer. I like it. It keeps the name "cheer" without the "leading" part which is what I believe we do. We cheer but we don't lead. Perfect solution to our problem. :)

 

[SharkDad]

those girls that competed in Ohio... are they still competing cheerleading?

I think you call the 'sport' part of cheerleading something else. Sport Cheer. I know I keep harping on it, but how many problems would it solve?

Are they competing? Yes. By you own definition, there are teams that compete doing only chants. The only thing required to have a competitions 2 teams being judged.

How many problems would it solve? None. There would still be no one officially representing cheerleading who advocates for the sport.

Posted from my BlackBerry using BerryBlab

 

[King]

Are they competing? Yes. By you own definition, there are teams that compete doing only chants. The only thing required to have a competitions 2 teams being judged.

How many problems would it solve? None. There would still be no one officially representing cheerleading who advocates for the sport.

Posted from my BlackBerry using BerryBlab

There would be officials who advocate Sport Cheer. That would be regulated.

Cheerleading is not a sport. It would be regulated by something else.

Cheerleading teams could go to Sport Cheer competitions and compete, but would have to follow the regulated rules of Sport Cheer.

 

[cheersafety]

There would be officials who advocate Sport Cheer. That would be regulated.

Cheerleading is not a sport. It would be regulated by something else.

Cheerleading teams could go to Sport Cheer competitions and compete, but would have to follow the regulated rules of Sport Cheer.

Look you already have a governing body.

ABOUT USA CHEER

The USA Federation for Sport Cheering is a not-for profit 501(c)(6) and is the national governing body for sport cheering. USA Cheer exists to serve the cheer community, including club cheering (All Star) and traditional school based cheer programs. USA Cheer has three primary objectives: help grow and develop interest and participation in Cheer throughout the United States; promote safety and safety education for cheer in the United States; and, represent the United States of America in international cheer competitions.

 

[King]

Look you already have a governing body.

ABOUT USA CHEER

The USA Federation for Sport Cheering is a not-for profit 501(c)(6) and is the national governing body for sport cheering. USA Cheer exists to serve the cheer community, including club cheering (All Star) and traditional school based cheer programs. USA Cheer has three primary objectives: help grow and develop interest and participation in Cheer throughout the United States; promote safety and safety education for cheer in the United States; and, represent the United States of America in international cheer competitions.

Well heck yeah. Is that new?

Surprised they havent been pushing the name and what not earlier. Would make completely sense.

(ummm did they change the name after i came up with that? dont they know I have copyrights? im suing! checkmate!)

 

[cheersafety]

Well heck yeah. Is that new?

Surprised they havent been pushing the name and what not earlier. Would make completely sense.

(ummm did they change the name after i came up with that? dont they know I have copyrights? im suing! checkmate!)

first organized and website purchased August 2007, papers filed 1/10 putting All Stars together with high school to be governed by USA Cheer.

 

[hiyoe6]

Well heck yeah. Is that new?

Surprised they havent been pushing the name and what not earlier. Would make completely sense.

(ummm did they change the name after i came up with that? dont they know I have copyrights? im suing! checkmate!)

LIES! I came up with the 'Sport Cheer' name before you!!!! lol