Hello, nice to meet everyone here
I admit I am very new here but I was honestly wondering what people in this community felt about how the sport of competitive cheerleading has been affected by different types of gender restrictions and how the image athletes strive for has led to them having not only having unrealistic expectations but also limiting, possibly severely, potentially great athletes simply because they might not have the right body type.
What I mean is, I wonder if competitive cheerleading is in the same position dancing was and if cheerleading is seen as something that is evolving or is in need of evolving. To expand using dancing as a parallel analogy, ballet was once very restrictive. It used to be all about men who were heavily muscled and women who were very tiny and petite despite obviously having a lot of strength. Gender roles and dance partnering was heavily restricted and there were rigid views on what women should like like and what role they had in partnering. Mainly, that the women were expected to be as small and slender as physically possible so that being lifted and thrown in the air was easier and their moves could look as graceful, delicate and feminine as possible.
But the dance community and numerous patrons of dance grew weary of this segregation and rigid traditionalism and wanted more freedom, a wider range of opportunities for dancers and a wider spectrum of athletes who could find a home in dancing. Modern and contemporary dancing developed and dance companies could have same-sex pairings, men and women alike taking on masculine and feminine roles and in some cases ignored traditional gender roles in partnering, with women lifting other women, men lifting other men and yes, even women lifting men. That last part is actually true for figure skating as well - for figure skating: shown here at 4:08 and here at 3:52 . In the former you can actually hear the crowd's reaction when the girl is doing the lifting. obviously, the vast majority of the time lifting is done traditionally but saying that reverse lifting (women lifting men) never happens and would be considered ridiculous, well that is actually not true. And when it came to partnering, people realized, at least if they hadn't already, that in partnering technique, leverage and the strength of the person being lifted are just as important as a lifter's strength- women who were taller and had larger muscle mass could be just as valued as the 100 lbs or less women.
So do what extent does the competitive cheerleading community see cheerleading following the same route that dancing, and to some extent figure skating/ice dancing, has done ?
For example, do they see a future where smaller, petite women and larger, more muscular women are equally valued or do they feel that has already happened ? My impression of competitive cheerleading - at least on the All Star Level and even more so on the Collegiate level - is that the women who are flyers on a Coed squad are the most highly valued and that at the All Star and College level, they all want to be Coed Flyers. Especially in College - it seems most girls first and foremost want to be flyers on a Large Coed squad and being a Small Coed Flyer, All Girl Flyer or base in any kind of squad is often looked at less favorably and sometimes looked down upon. Combine that with the pressure Large Coed Flyers have to be as smaller as possible and it sometimes seems competitive cheerleading currently creates an atmosphere basically the same as where dance was in the restrictive, classical era - where the girls 100 lbs or less are valued way more than large, muscled girls in the 125 to 150 lbs range. And the same kind of restrictions might be holding for guys - there's been a lot of pressure for cheerleading to have more football player types enter the sport as opposed to male dancer types. Is cheerleading going in the direction where football and male dancer types are welcomed or restricted to more the powerhouse types ?
And as far as the reversing of gender roles, I know that for a while there was an intense debate on male flyers, whether they were based by males or females, and I am absolutely not looking to reignite a flame war on that subject. Just looking to have a thoughtful discussion on whether or not the competitive cheerleading would open up to periodically reversing gender roles in partnering the way dance has.
I mean, I actually saw in one 2006 routine where one team had a well known example of a guy going in the air as a flyer with girls basing - and I think it may have been Sheldon of Top Gun fame now that I think about it - and some fans found that to be either very awkward or too dangerous. I was wondered if squads ever looked to have guys do something like that in the future or if they got too much flak and so decided against it. I think some people would love to see stuff like that in the future, having males go in the air like that can get big crowd responses.
I wonder if in Cheerleading there will be any moves towards more liberation in gender partnering, like there is in modern dance and ice dancing or if in the next few years cheerleading will become more traditional. Or maybe a little of both will happen, there will be calls for cheerleading to become more old fashioned with traditional roles for males/females and calls for cheerleading to have more liberal gender roles, leading to the successful teams being able to have traditional roles for tosses, pyramids and stunts as well as periodically have more liberal gender roles like modern dance/ice dancing does - though stunts would have to be somewhat modified to make any sense with gender roles being switched.
I also know that in reversing gender roles even for pyramids and basket tosses, it would depend on a lot of factors. One would need males who are comfortable going into the air and in some cases, being based by girls below them. And you would need girls who are comfortable with it as well. When it comes to girls basing guys, I have heard some say it sucks and is miserable due to the extra weight and others say it can actually be kinds fun and cool since - provided the guy flying knows how to carry his weight properly and do the right amount of work - and that having the muscle on him can even make it easier. I am also unsure if girls in All Star and College Cheerleading unanimously feel that basing guys in tosses or other stunts - even if only occasionally- makes them feel too masculine and not truly feminine enough or if there are some of them would find it cool and kind of empowering even to base guys like that. And this is one of those things that only girls currently in college or All Star Cheerleading can answer.
I admit I am very new here but I was honestly wondering what people in this community felt about how the sport of competitive cheerleading has been affected by different types of gender restrictions and how the image athletes strive for has led to them having not only having unrealistic expectations but also limiting, possibly severely, potentially great athletes simply because they might not have the right body type.
What I mean is, I wonder if competitive cheerleading is in the same position dancing was and if cheerleading is seen as something that is evolving or is in need of evolving. To expand using dancing as a parallel analogy, ballet was once very restrictive. It used to be all about men who were heavily muscled and women who were very tiny and petite despite obviously having a lot of strength. Gender roles and dance partnering was heavily restricted and there were rigid views on what women should like like and what role they had in partnering. Mainly, that the women were expected to be as small and slender as physically possible so that being lifted and thrown in the air was easier and their moves could look as graceful, delicate and feminine as possible.
But the dance community and numerous patrons of dance grew weary of this segregation and rigid traditionalism and wanted more freedom, a wider range of opportunities for dancers and a wider spectrum of athletes who could find a home in dancing. Modern and contemporary dancing developed and dance companies could have same-sex pairings, men and women alike taking on masculine and feminine roles and in some cases ignored traditional gender roles in partnering, with women lifting other women, men lifting other men and yes, even women lifting men. That last part is actually true for figure skating as well - for figure skating: shown here at 4:08 and here at 3:52 . In the former you can actually hear the crowd's reaction when the girl is doing the lifting. obviously, the vast majority of the time lifting is done traditionally but saying that reverse lifting (women lifting men) never happens and would be considered ridiculous, well that is actually not true. And when it came to partnering, people realized, at least if they hadn't already, that in partnering technique, leverage and the strength of the person being lifted are just as important as a lifter's strength- women who were taller and had larger muscle mass could be just as valued as the 100 lbs or less women.
So do what extent does the competitive cheerleading community see cheerleading following the same route that dancing, and to some extent figure skating/ice dancing, has done ?
For example, do they see a future where smaller, petite women and larger, more muscular women are equally valued or do they feel that has already happened ? My impression of competitive cheerleading - at least on the All Star Level and even more so on the Collegiate level - is that the women who are flyers on a Coed squad are the most highly valued and that at the All Star and College level, they all want to be Coed Flyers. Especially in College - it seems most girls first and foremost want to be flyers on a Large Coed squad and being a Small Coed Flyer, All Girl Flyer or base in any kind of squad is often looked at less favorably and sometimes looked down upon. Combine that with the pressure Large Coed Flyers have to be as smaller as possible and it sometimes seems competitive cheerleading currently creates an atmosphere basically the same as where dance was in the restrictive, classical era - where the girls 100 lbs or less are valued way more than large, muscled girls in the 125 to 150 lbs range. And the same kind of restrictions might be holding for guys - there's been a lot of pressure for cheerleading to have more football player types enter the sport as opposed to male dancer types. Is cheerleading going in the direction where football and male dancer types are welcomed or restricted to more the powerhouse types ?
And as far as the reversing of gender roles, I know that for a while there was an intense debate on male flyers, whether they were based by males or females, and I am absolutely not looking to reignite a flame war on that subject. Just looking to have a thoughtful discussion on whether or not the competitive cheerleading would open up to periodically reversing gender roles in partnering the way dance has.
I mean, I actually saw in one 2006 routine where one team had a well known example of a guy going in the air as a flyer with girls basing - and I think it may have been Sheldon of Top Gun fame now that I think about it - and some fans found that to be either very awkward or too dangerous. I was wondered if squads ever looked to have guys do something like that in the future or if they got too much flak and so decided against it. I think some people would love to see stuff like that in the future, having males go in the air like that can get big crowd responses.
I wonder if in Cheerleading there will be any moves towards more liberation in gender partnering, like there is in modern dance and ice dancing or if in the next few years cheerleading will become more traditional. Or maybe a little of both will happen, there will be calls for cheerleading to become more old fashioned with traditional roles for males/females and calls for cheerleading to have more liberal gender roles, leading to the successful teams being able to have traditional roles for tosses, pyramids and stunts as well as periodically have more liberal gender roles like modern dance/ice dancing does - though stunts would have to be somewhat modified to make any sense with gender roles being switched.
I also know that in reversing gender roles even for pyramids and basket tosses, it would depend on a lot of factors. One would need males who are comfortable going into the air and in some cases, being based by girls below them. And you would need girls who are comfortable with it as well. When it comes to girls basing guys, I have heard some say it sucks and is miserable due to the extra weight and others say it can actually be kinds fun and cool since - provided the guy flying knows how to carry his weight properly and do the right amount of work - and that having the muscle on him can even make it easier. I am also unsure if girls in All Star and College Cheerleading unanimously feel that basing guys in tosses or other stunts - even if only occasionally- makes them feel too masculine and not truly feminine enough or if there are some of them would find it cool and kind of empowering even to base guys like that. And this is one of those things that only girls currently in college or All Star Cheerleading can answer.
In general, it comes down to is Cheerleading more likely to follow the same route ballet dancing when or go in a different, even opposite, direction ?
Interested in any insight you may have,
emax13
emax13
