All-Star Yo, Gymtyme Is Not Playing This Year.

[as1rico]

pretty safe to say that if mom and pop allstars had to argue this same point I am pretty sure the outcome would have been differant

 

[rvnblue]

I don't have a dog in this fight, and frankly I have nothing against any gym or choreographer. HOWEVER, that being said, I feel the rule in this issue is very self explanatory. If it says you are not allowed to be caught in a prone position (on your stomach, which is the definition of prone), then I don't care what angle you're caught in, a prone position is a prone position. No angle changes that the flyer is released and caught on her stomach, ie prone. I just get peeved when rules are bent in ways that don't make sense.

Your definition of prone is incorrect. The definition of prone is in the cheer glossary.

Prone Position: A face down, flat body position.

 

[0hs0electriK]

pretty safe to say that if mom and pop allstars had to argue this same point I am pretty sure the outcome would have been differant

Not safe to say, think before your ignorant remarks. Stop acting like you were at the conference, you have NO CLUE what was said or how it went down

 

[KB_Legend]

Thanks I didn't know because I haven't seen their routine from this season so it confused me a little. Guess I will have to wait until Cheersport (i guess they will be attending) to see the routine.

They do a one arm rewind cupie, power press and pop, then the flyer does a back flip with a half twist to a cradle

Your definition of prone is incorrect. The definition of prone is in the cheer glossary.

Prone Position: A face down, flat body position.

Prone is a word that existed in the english language long before cheerleading and it means something is front side down, which for a person means they are on their stomach.... Also I don't consider flat to be a synonym for horizontal but apparently other people do because that is where the discrepancy is... The way I see it a pancake is flat, if you pick it up so it is no longer laying on the plate, it's still flat....

Not safe to say, think before your ignorant remarks. Stop acting like you were at the conference, you have NO CLUE what was said or how it went down

you are being very rude for no reason, have you ever heard of the pot calling the kettle black?? How about people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones??? Don't call people ignorant when you have been proved ignorant of the rules yourself just earlier in this thread. By all means disagree with people, god and everyone else knows I do all the time, but if you can't express your opinions in a more intelligent less aggressive and more polite manner then it's probably best if you just stick to reading

 

[rvnblue]

They do a one arm rewind cupie, power press and pop, then the flyer does a back flip with a half twist to a cradle



Prone is a word that existed in the english language long before cheerleading and it means something is front side down, which for a person means they are on their stomach.... Also I don't consider flat to be a synonym for horizontal but apparently other people do because that is where the discrepancy is... The way I see it a pancake is flat, if you pick it up so it is no longer laying on the plate, it's still flat....


you are being very rude for no reason, have you ever heard of the pot calling the kettle black?? How about people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones??? Don't call people ignorant when you have been proved ignorant of the rules yourself just earlier in this thread. By all means disagree with people, god and everyone else knows I do all the time, but if you can't express your opinions in a more intelligent less aggressive and more polite manner then it's probably best if you just stick to reading

I'm simply stating that the USASF must go by what the definitions they use consist of and we cannot be using our own definitions as rebuttals or support for our own arguments. I, for one, agree that this stunt is illegal, and should be counted as such. The plane of the flyer's body is flat. I do not care that a single appendage is bent behind her because that is saying that if I bend my neck down, the plane of my body is no longer flat.

 

[0hs0electriK]

They do a one arm rewind cupie, power press and pop, then the flyer does a back flip with a half twist to a cradle



Prone is a word that existed in the english language long before cheerleading and it means something is front side down, which for a person means they are on their stomach.... Also I don't consider flat to be a synonym for horizontal but apparently other people do because that is where the discrepancy is... The way I see it a pancake is flat, if you pick it up so it is no longer laying on the plate, it's still flat....


you are being very rude for no reason, have you ever heard of the pot calling the kettle black?? How about people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones??? Don't call people ignorant when you have been proved ignorant of the rules yourself just earlier in this thread. By all means disagree with people, god and everyone else knows I do all the time, but if you can't express your opinions in a more intelligent less aggressive and more polite manner then it's probably best if you just stick to reading

Ditto dude!

 

[MissBee]

This is exactly why, like every other sport, cheerleading needs to have a "Rules Interpretation Meeting" held annually. I don't know of any other sport that doesn't do this. They are held regionally or on the state level. In high school sports they are held by league or other smaller division.
All of the officials and coaches attend together. Each rule is discussed. The rationale behind WHY something is an infraction is given. Examples of permitted and not permitted are given. Coaches and officials have the opportunity to bring up and discuss other examples/situations. This is what cheer needs. This way, there is a clear interpretation of the rules that EVERYONE is aware of, and these types of situations don't happen.

 

[garretttt]

Ive watched this thread for a quite a while, and it angers me a TON.

If whoever coaches those teams knew a bit about safety they wouldnt have put in that prone thing. Arguing their way out of it by saying it is at an angle is absolutely insane! They just completely robbed a team, Midwest, out of a paid bid BY THROWING THEIR WEIGHT AROUND. My proof is that they can't keep their GT 6 team legal, how the heck do you think they knew enough to keep their IOC 5 team legal.

What bothers me the most is the USASF is ROBBING Midwest of their rightly deserved bid. Part of the job of a coach is to know the rules, not muscle their way into them being correct.

To the coaches of those teams, the USASF, and WSF: How DARE you take away that bid from Midwest. I have lost all respect for you. It is an insult to cheerleading and everything I THOUGHT I believed in that you all are allowed to manipulate this sport to your will and advantage, when the rest of us have to play by the rules.

(Removed a bit of cussing - Kingston)

gt didnt take anything away from midwest. WSF made the mistake and didnt catch gts illegal stunt. dont put gt to blame for this.

 

[Brenner]

haahha, embarrassing to everyone who said the stunt was "definitely illegal".

Not at all.
Not for me : )

 

[Deleted member 15]

This is exactly why, like every other sport, cheerleading needs to have a "Rules Interpretation Meeting" held annually. I don't know of any other sport that doesn't do this. They are held regionally or on the state level. In high school sports they are held by league or other smaller division.
All of the officials and coaches attend together. Each rule is discussed. The rationale behind WHY something is an infraction is given. Examples of permitted and not permitted are given. Coaches and officials have the opportunity to bring up and discuss other examples/situations. This is what cheer needs. This way, there is a clear interpretation of the rules that EVERYONE is aware of, and these types of situations don't happen.

There are several each summer. They go along with USASF Regional meetings.

 

[KB_Legend]

Andre, was this particular rule discussed specifically at the meetings?? You were certified in legalities, correct?

 

[Deleted member 15]

One thing that is being overlooked is the fact that WSF warned teams about rules violations on the first day, but did not take away points. This means (ignoring the stunt being considered legal) GT would have been warned on Day 1, able to change it for day 2, and the Paid Bids would have been awarded to the same teams.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Andre, was this particular rule discussed specifically at the meetings?? You were certified in legalities, correct?

I am certified. Every rules was mentioned, but I don't recall going in detail about this one in Atlanta. People attending the meeting had the opportunity to inquire about any rule.

 

[Audrey]

yes, an angle. If the girls are not flat, why should they be punished under the rule? Maybe people on here should dicuss the rules more, rather than calling out GT's every move. James Speed KNOWS what he is doing, and I am sure that he would never put something illegal in a routine.

I never called GymTyme out on anything. In case you didn't notice, I said people in general can bend the rules. I didn't say it's embarrassing that GymTyme can bend the rules. Yes in this situation they did but I never said anything negative about them.
James Speed is human. Even the most talented of people can make mistakes. And in this situation, he did. As long as the flyers were face down, it was illegal. An angle really doesn't apply in this situation and I don't know why all of a sudden they're saying it's legal.

 

[Bmb523]

If its not defined by the all powerful usasf then I think it is in the gyms right to be able to interpret the rules they set out and call them on it... can this witch hunt be over any time soon please?