All-Star Yo, Gymtyme Is Not Playing This Year.

Welcome to our Cheerleading Community

Members see FEWER ads... join today!

Actually, I find situations like these very helpful. It was kinda like how on the webcast that section about Level 4 and 5 tumbling came up and the majority of the coaches were SO confused as to how it would work, they forgot the current level rules to begin with! The point being is that things will now be EXTRA clarified later on..
 
I never called GymTyme out on anything. In case you didn't notice, I said people in general can bend the rules. I didn't say it's embarrassing that GymTyme can bend the rules. Yes in this situation they did but I never said anything negative about them.
James Speed is human. Even the most talented of people can make mistakes. And in this situation, he did. As long as the flyers were face down, it was illegal. An angle really doesn't apply in this situation and I don't know why all of a sudden they're saying it's legal.
becasue it is.
 
becasue it is.
Prone:
–adjective
1. having a natural inclination or tendency to something; disposed; liable: to be prone to anger.
2. having the front or ventral part downward; lying face downward.
3. lying flat; prostrate.
The way their stunt is caught definitely fits both of those. I fail to see how it's legal. Clearly the meaning of the word is being interpreted the wrong way in this situation. It's too bad cause it's a really cool stunt but I really think it's illegal.
 
Prone:
–adjective
1. having a natural inclination or tendency to something; disposed; liable: to be prone to anger.
2. having the front or ventral part downward; lying face downward.
3. lying flat; prostrate.
The way their stunt is caught definitely fits both of those. I fail to see how it's legal. Clearly the meaning of the word is being interpreted the wrong way in this situation. It's too bad cause it's a really cool stunt but I really think it's illegal.
nope.
 
There are several each summer. They go along with USASF Regional meetings.

Thanks. Here's my next question. When and where are these held? I there a website that lists them? I wonder this, because as Courtney Smith-Pope pointed out, these things are often held at places that most gym owners can't afford to attend. There should be many of them, and done in a way that is accessible to ALL.
 
Thanks. Here's my next question. When and where are these held? I there a website that lists them? I wonder this, because as Courtney Smith-Pope pointed out, these things are often held at places that most gym owners can't afford to attend. There should be many of them, and done in a way that is accessible to ALL.

So basically, for all intents and purposes, this rule is defeated rather easily (so much to the point that there is exactly one degree out of 360 that prone is describing.. think about that for a moment and how arguable is that you are not within that 1 degree) so if others had known how easy it would be to talk your way out of it they would have also done it.

I can start doing a 'Loopholes on the scoresheet' thing every week. So many things are so illegal be description of the rules (and so many arent) youd be surprised.
 
Loophole #1:

A pyramid is a grouping of stunts that can involve someone standing on the ground. Therefore anything legal in pyramids is also legal in stunts just by having someone near it that isnt a base.
 
The loop hole thing is so frustrating. As people have pointed out, if a smaller or start-up gym had done this the "illegal" ruling would have stood. It is completely ridiculous that there is only 1° where this skill is illegal. Skills are made illegal for safety reasons. Should one of those flyers be caught wrong, or missed, the end result could be tragedy. Best case, pulled stomach muscles (which take a long time to heal, and are very painful to just breathe)...worst case, broken neck with paralysis or death.
 
Thanks. Here's my next question. When and where are these held? I there a website that lists them? I wonder this, because as Courtney Smith-Pope pointed out, these things are often held at places that most gym owners can't afford to attend. There should be many of them, and done in a way that is accessible to ALL.


07/15/2011 Mid Atlantic Regional Meeting & Judges Training Richmond VA
07/22/2011 Northeast Regional Meeting & Judges Training Hartford CT
07/29/2011 Midwest Regional Meeting & Judges Training Mason OH
08/05/2011 Southeast Regional Meeting & Judges Training Atlanta GA
08/12/2011 Western Regional Meeting & Judges Training Costa Mesa CA
08/19/2011 Southwest Regional Meeting & Judges Training Dallas TX

Last season they also had Rules Judges Training at some summer coaches conferences.

The NACCC Meeting is held at a nice South Florida resort, but the USASF Meetings have been pretty reasonable the past few years.
 
Here was a point that was brought up while I was discussing this dilemma with other coaches... I find it quite valid.

***Steps on Soap Box***

First let me say, that it's MY interpretation - That we have rules for safety. Further more, when we have injuries in our sport, it is also my interpretation that the rules are what we would use to fall back on in the court of law. If someone is injured, the rules are there to backup when we are doing is safe (Ei: Braces, Progressions between levels, etc)... Soooooo....

Lets assume that this stunt is TRUELY deemed legal (Id think Les or someone would come out with a statement since its gone back and forth and has the industry in an uproar), and Little Susie Allstars decides to go a head and give this stunt a try. While working on this stunt - A flyer comes down to the prone position wrong - she injures her spleen and is injured, or lord help us, the injury results in death - Would the USASF/Les Stella be able to sit in the court of law and explain to 12 jury members that this stunt is safe to perform? Would they be able to show the jury the rule STATING that you may not come down in a PRONE POSITION - Then show a video of the stunt- And convince jury members that is NOT prone? Coming down at the prone position (or 45 degree angle as some have been known to call it) with your leg in a scorpion and your hands behind your head to be caught is dangerous. What makes this dangerous is that the organs in the stomach are not protected by any bone structure what so ever. Lets not forget the East Elite lawsuit in which a highschool athlete died due to an abdominal injury. Plus, thats not even mentioning the ruptured spleens, damaged organs, etc that occur due to direct impact with the stomach. The USASF can defend this by saying its a "gray area" but in court saying that a child got hurt in a sporting accident due to landing in a prone position with her leg and arms behind her head would NEVER hold up in court. It is great Gymtyme found a loophole and became innovative. I must add that Gymtyme is VERY deserving of this bid - NO ONE, and i mean NO ONE should be taking credit away from GT or those kids. If your upset with Gymtyme due to safety - thats your own opinion - but if you are upset about GT getting the bid - Dont take WSF's poor judging and the USASF's bad decision making out on GT - Take it out on the USASF's legality judges judging at WSF and the USASF for their handeling of the situation. Saying that the stunt is illegal and then retracting that and saying that it is legal - sounds like all the USASF did was try to say "How can we make this legal so we dont look bad?"

Last but no least - My OTHER issue with the ruling - Why in this sport, is the decision left to ONE MAN to decide if it is legal or illegal? Why is there not a panal that has say 13 (an odd number) of people in it that should review the rule and make the decision? I used 13 because our government has 12 jury members in a court case. They do that - So that they can have 12 people with diverse perspectives evaluate and deliver an answer unanamously about ruling. However, our sports fate and "gray areas" are decided by one man, and one man alone. What if in the court of law there was only ONE jury member?...

***Exits Soap Box***
 
As I was reading Rudags' post a thought occurred to me. This stunt (with the possible injuries that go with it) is considered legal, but a knee drop is still illegal? Chew on that one.
 

Latest posts

Back