All-Star Cheer Music & Copyright Laws...

[David]

It does not come down to anyone "turning in people" Cheer mixes are already on the RIAA radar. RIAA is sees $$$$ signs and will pursue if they feel it is worth it. Look what they did to file sharing.

They did nothing to file sharing. They harassed teenagers and the media made them look like corporate bullies. Sure, Napster got taken down but with torrent websites literally everywhere on the web, file sharing is currently bigger than it ever was.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Xtreme... You think a team will wait 4-8 weeks to hear if they requested will be allowed to Bevin the mix? You can't just "pay for rights " you have to request the rights and then they can deny your request. And then you have to pay...so now it's going to cost more then it already does to produce a mix...because it cost so much to get the rights to multiple songs...the answer is original mixes from top to bottom

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And Xtreme cheer music isn't going anywhere unless YOU are reporting people. Are you? The Fierce Board App! || iPhone || Android

You know what you jerk?! No I don't and had you actually read the entire thread you would have seen my FEELINGS on the subject, not just clarifying the laws!! But I sure could start if you want me to...Pretty easy thing to do since my father's in the business. Don't come on here and be all indignant towards me like that when I've tried to be helpful AND when I expressed sympathy regarding the issue. I am very familiar with how the system works and as much as it might suck for you, any other cheer mix producers, AND parents w/kids in cheer who PAY for your work, your illegal work- it is still ILLEGAL and I can't do anything about that.

Allow me to clarify my feelings since you didn't take the time to read a 7 page thread before being an *ss to me- an excerpt from one of my posts on page 4 of this thread.

Do I personally care that you are selling your mixes? No, I do not..I am aware that it is technically illegal, but I do not personally think it is that big of a deal. That is my personal opinion though, not the facts.. I hope we continue to fly under the radar bc I love cheer music and I would hate to see it change when, in my opinion, it really doesn't affect such a large percentage of the music industry at all...but, let's be real. They are greedy and they will attempt to find every way to make as much money as they possibly can. The ASCAP is a non-profit organization..and I already gave examples of their antics in the first paragraph of my reply. I truly don't mind what you do.

And just out of curiosity, have you actually tried applying for multiple rights and how much did it cost? Or have you gotten an estimate and are willing to share how much they quoted you? And/or if you've ever been denied....

They did nothing to file sharing. They harassed teenagers and the media made them look like corporate bullies. Sure, Napster got taken down but with torrent websites literally everywhere on the web, file sharing is currently bigger than it ever was.

While this is true in many ways, in other instances there have been MANY concerted efforts to crack down on this as I'm sure you're aware; first w/Limewire, then Pirate Bay (which is still in business despite everything, lol), the attempted legislation of SOPA/PIPA, now the cable companies, etc actually working w/these companies to "help" combat piracy even more.
New Copyright Alert System Snitches On Digital Music Thieves « 98.1 WOGL

And not everyone actually feels this way/the same way as I do. Many, many people pay for their music through iTunes and the "old fashioned" way (CD's, lol) as they do consider it stealing and/or don't want to break the law. Don't shoot the messenger please..

 

[xtremeteal4life]

I believe under the fair use act it is already legal and justified. Feel free to obtain the copyrights and make the music yourself.

It's not though David. You know that or else this wouldn't be an issue. I don't think it's very fair for you or any other person to come on here and be pissed off bc you're doing something illegal. It's not OUR responsibility to know this stuff but it is yours. Like I said (also earlier in this thread)-

As far as paying for your services, a gym owner (probably with no extensive knowledge regarding the law compared to you) would most likely assume that you, as a music producer, are adhering to proper copyright laws. Considering that your job is to provide the music, that would seem logical. Just like I would expect my daughter's coach to know how to put a routine together that is competitive, a choreographer to provide choreography that is original (i.e., not a direct rip off), etc.

Most people aren't aware of this. They don't know that the music they're paying for in their fees towards the gym are used to obtain anything illegal. Again, I'm not trying to be rude..here's another excerpt of mine from this thread..

I'm not trying to start a war or be anti-cheer music! Good lord! I wish all music was free in my own perfect world and that artists just made music first and foremost bc of their love of music... *sigh
I just wanted to provide accurate answers for those asking.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

@King- I keep getting an alert from my virus protection that a risky connection has been blocked when I'm attempting to reply to this thread (twice). Idk what the deal is, but I have the IP's and company names ... any idea on possibilities? This is the only window/tab open on my computer at the moment. Can you tell if someone is trying to phish from here? An advertiser maybe?

 

[Star Status]

I know all these laws I went to school for music performance. And yes I have looked into legally mixing one mix based on request from a team came out to 2,800 when my fee is 450 NO ONE is going to pay for that!! You came on here preaching to us like don't know anything if you would have looked my first post in this was" we know about all this and we are looking into it" and while I said people have to be turning people in is because some producers don't have contact info. Unless you gave it to RIAA so excuse my while I try to protect my self and my business. Half the stuff done in cheer is illegal but gyms sell cloths with our retail licenses open gyms with our insurance or occupation licenses. Transport kids with out the proper license and yet the producers are being turned in?


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[xtremeteal4life]

I know all these laws I went to school for music performance. And yes I have looked into legally mixing one mix based on request from a team came out to 2,800 when my fee is 450 NO ONE is going to pay for that!! You came on here preaching to us like don't know anything if you would have looked my first post in this was" we know about all this and we are looking into it" and while I said people have to be turning people in is because some producers don't have contact info. Unless you gave it to RIAA so excuse my while I try to protect my self and my business. Half the stuff done in cheer is illegal but gyms sell cloths with our retail licenses open gyms with our insurance or occupation licenses. Transport kids with out the proper license and yet the producers are being turned in?


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Actually no I didn't...and please correct me if I'm wrong, but David was the one who brought that (about it being looked into up, not you (unless you're the same person posting on two different accounts).

And how the hades would I have your contact info? I don't know you from Tom and Jerry. Get off your high horse bc what you're doing is illegal, you know it, you've known it...you've just "wiggled around" the law and are pissed bc something is being done about it. I resent the implication and your attitude after my previous post w/my stance/feelings regarding it and how it doesn't bother me...So you might wanna simmer down for the sake of your own good buddy (and no that's not a threat from me, but you're out here blasting how it's so unfair they're doing this to you, etc. etc. and accepting no personal responsibility and I doubt that would look good for you if you into trouble of some sort. Just saying. I can easily see how someone might get personally peeved at you based on the way post if that's how you are in real life, so maybe you outta look somewhere closer to home or someone whom you've actually pissed off first.

Offering an apology would have nice considering I wasn't attacking you and don't have a problem w/what you do. I feel empathetic towards the situation as I've repeatedly pointed out. But apparently hot heads don't listen when they've got a one track mind.

Good day to you..I'm headed to Worlds

 

[David]

It's not though David. You know that or else this wouldn't be an issue. I don't think it's very fair for you or any other person to come on here and be pissed off bc you're doing something illegal. It's not OUR responsibility to know this stuff but it is yours. Like I said (also earlier in this thread)-

No. It is an issue because nothing has been proven yet. It would need to be taken to court to determine whether it officially falls under the fair use act. I think it does. I'm not the one making it an issue.

 

[David]

Actually no I didn't...and please correct me if I'm wrong, but David was the one who brought that (about it being looked into up, not you (unless you're the same person posting on two different accounts).

And how the hades would I have your contact info? I don't know you from Tom and Jerry. Get off your high horse bc what you're doing is illegal, you know it, you've known it...you've just "wiggled around" the law and are pissed bc something is being done about it. I resent the implication and your attitude after my previous post w/my stance/feelings regarding it and how it doesn't bother me...So you might wanna simmer down for the sake of your own good buddy (and no that's not a threat from me, but you're out here blasting how it's so unfair they're doing this to you, etc. etc. and accepting no personal responsibility and I doubt that would look good for you if you into trouble of some sort. Just saying. I can easily see how someone might get personally peeved at you based on the way post if that's how you are in real life, so maybe you outta look somewhere closer to home or someone whom you've actually pissed off first.

Offering an apology would have nice considering I wasn't attacking you and don't have a problem w/what you do. I feel empathetic towards the situation as I've repeatedly pointed out. But apparently hot heads don't listen when they've got a one track mind.

Good day to you..I'm headed to Worlds

You're not understanding. Nothing has been proven to be illegal. The RIAA is just sending out letters claiming that it is illegal. I don't think it is illegal at all.

 

[David]

Okay guys, here it is. Some actual news that should clear the air about what is legal and what is not and what you need to do to ensure you are getting a completely legal product to your customers.

First, let's talk about what is being called "Illegal." Creating a mix (essentially a mash-up of songs from various popular artists) and then selling said mix to a customer as our original product even though we have not obtained any of the licensing for any of the songs. It is important to remember the transaction and distribution is illegal, not the creation. That said, you could create your own cheer mix and listen to it all you want you are not breaking any laws.

So, then comes the question, how do we get our custom mixes in the hands of our clients without breaking any laws? I have been speaking with numerous producers over the last couple weeks about what we could do to solve this problem. Then, today, I received a phone call from a producer friend about a website called legitmix.com. What this website does is allow dj's, remixers, mash-up artists, etc...to sell their product online without the hassle of obtaining any copyright information. How does this work? It is actually quite simple. It makes sure before purchasing the track that you have purchased all the copyrighted source material and it searches for it on your computer. Once it has found each song that is present in the remix/mash-up/cheer track, legitmix.com then recreates the track through your computer on their integrated software and downloads it to your computer leaving you with an exact replica of the track you found on their website---All completely legal because you purchased the copyrighted source material and recreated the track yourself.

From legitmix.com "A Legitmix file does not contain any unlicensed copyrighted material so we do not need other people's permission to distribute it. Essentially, Legitmix acts like a digital instruction set, which a consumer can use along with their copy of the identified source music to recreate your mix on their computer. This recreation is legal since the consumer has the right to mix music they own for personal use."

So they way you could handle this for cheer is pretty simple. Once you have all the songs you are using in your mix, contact your client and let them know what songs you have chosen so they can download them from iTunes on their computer. Once you have completed the mix and they make a donation to your company, you can upload the mix to legitmix.com, set the price to zero dollars and they are free to download.

The only area that is a little grey for me still is dealing with payment outside of legitmix.com (because they will take 30% of whatever you set your price at). However, I believe you could get around it if everything is invoiced as a donation, and they pay the 50 cents to download the track from legit mix. That way they are buying the track from legitmix.com and donating money to your company for your help or voice overs or whatever you want to call it. Worse case scenario you just charge your going rate for the track and legit mix takes 30%. (i.e. you charge 300.00 for a mix, you will really only get 210.00

 

[David]

Just to clarify, this is merely an option one might choose if they so desire, as a way to bypass any legal issues THEY THINK they might run into. However, I don't believe the current process of creating and distributing cheer music is illegal, therefore this isn't a viable option for me, especially since this concerns the sale of online music, which I do not partake in. Myself, and many other producers will tell you we merely provide a service and that is it, and that is in fact the truth. That being said, don't expect anything to come of any of this. It will all blow over and this thread will be ancient, and if it does ever escalate I believe it will be handled by those who are capable. So, prepare for the 2013-2014 music season! Enjoy!

 

[NYC119]

Okay guys, here it is. Some actual news that should clear the air about what is legal and what is not and what you need to do to ensure you are getting a completely legal product to your customers.
.....

Interesting concept. Even though the gym/client could purchase the mix.. I believe that is still only for private use(playing at home/gym/car). The gym or producer would still have to pay a performance fee and potentially obtain a sync license. Let's say you put a Taylor Swift song in with some swear words from a voice over... Swift's publisher will not want her music displayed in that light. They would require a sync license prior to the publishing rights to allow it to be played for the public. Legitmix skips this step and therefore cannot be legal.

Almost every time a copyrighted song is mixed with additional tracks or video, a sync license is required for public space.

I agree there should be an easier way for producers to purchase the rights to popular music. The video industry has started moving in the right direction with sites like musicbed and songfreeedom. Where you can purchase the rights to some popular music for around $50/song. If BMI and ASCAP were smart, they'd have a division dedicated to these types of audio/video rights. $50/song times tens of thousands is better than the zero they're getting now. It's just too expensive and too much of a pain as it stands.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Oh lord don't tell him he's wrong...

 

[Dannomite]

So, a company called Legal Cheer Music is claiming that they produce totally legal cheer mixes. They have a sample of their mix on their website (Legal Cheerleading Music | The ONLY producer of Legal Cheerleading Music.Legal Cheerleading Music) and after listening to it, they have obviously taken pop songs, recorded someone else singing them in the exact same manner, pitch, and lyrics as the original song, and placed it in the mix. My question is, does covering a copy-written song make the situation with record companies any more legal?
Thoughts?

 

[xtremeteal4life]

So, a company called Legal Cheer Music is claiming that they produce totally legal cheer mixes. They have a sample of their mix on their website (Legal Cheerleading Music | The ONLY producer of Legal Cheerleading Music.Legal Cheerleading Music) and after listening to it, they have obviously taken pop songs, recorded someone else singing them in the exact same manner, pitch, and lyrics as the original song, and placed it in the mix. My question is, does covering a copy-written song make the situation with record companies any more legal?
Thoughts?

No, not if it's being sold for profit. Period. You can make all the music you want and for yourself and listen to it all day long in your house. Unless the proper fees have been paid and the person has the permission to distribute said music, then no, it's still not legal.

*Many producers try to get around it by citing the "fair use", but I assure you the record companies vehemently disagree.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Interesting concept. Even though the gym/client could purchase the mix.. I believe that is still only for private use(playing at home/gym/car). The gym or producer would still have to pay a performance fee and potentially obtain a sync license. Let's say you put a Taylor Swift song in with some swear words from a voice over... Swift's publisher will not want her music displayed in that light. They would require a sync license prior to the publishing rights to allow it to be played for the public. Legitmix skips this step and therefore cannot be legal.

Almost every time a copyrighted song is mixed with additional tracks or video, a sync license is required for public space.

I agree there should be an easier way for producers to purchase the rights to popular music. The video industry has started moving in the right direction with sites like musicbed and songfreeedom. Where you can purchase the rights to some popular music for around $50/song. If BMI and ASCAP were smart, they'd have a division dedicated to these types of audio/video rights. $50/song times tens of thousands is better than the zero they're getting now. It's just too expensive and too much of a pain as it stands.

Lord don't we all wish!