All-Star Crossover Limit ???

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Feb 21, 2011
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I just wanted to see how everybody feels about gyms that have large amounts of crossovers. Some gyms have 40%- 50% of each of their teams crossing to another team. How many is too many . I feel it gives these teams a large advantage in the lower levels . I mean if you are talented enough to be on a jr. or sr. level 4 or 5 and then cross down to a level 1,2,0r 3 ( sometimes down to youth) , it should come as no surprise that you are talented enough to place first in the lower levels divisions. This seems to me to be a large disadvantage to gyms that do not take part in the mass crossovers , especially large gyms that do not need to . I see some small gyms that have under 75-85 athletes but field 5 or 6 large teams . How do you guys feel on the subject???
 
By me commenting first, I feel like Nelly is going to say that I'm the one who wrote this thread. haha

Anyway, I believe you should only use crossovers for injuries, etc. It seems like gyms that have boys on a sr 5 team always seem to have them cross down to a level 3 or 4 team. I think that bothers me the most.

What is also interesting to me is looking at how some teams with a large number of crossovers place. There are some teams that have large numbers of crossovers that still don't place well in lower levels.
 
I agree with @imrichhowboutu. Boys are harder to come by in some areas so when gyms use the same boys on a few teams, it upsets me. That's unfair to the boys who are truly on that level. If everyone wanted to take advantage of the crossovers, they could compete the same 20 people at every level and dominate the lower levels. That would really send everyone over the edge lol
 
I agree with @imrichhowboutu. Boys are harder to come by in some areas so when gyms use the same boys on a few teams, it upsets me. That's unfair to the boys who are truly on that level. If everyone wanted to take advantage of the crossovers, they could compete the same 20 people at every level and dominate the lower levels. That would really send everyone over the edge lol
I'm waiting for the day when someone competes senior 5 and senior 2 with the exact same time. At the moment it is completely legal.

To tell you the truth, i think it would be really entertaining to see shooting stars do the same routine but level 2. But it would be absolutely ridiculous in terms of competition.
 
I'm waiting for the day when someone competes senior 5 and senior 2 with the exact same time. At the moment it is completely legal.

... I've seen it happen. I won't name the gym but they're pretty well known.. like it was at a bid competition. The senior 5 competed first and I watched all their crossovers run into senior 2's warmups as everyone was sitting backstage for at least like 20 minutes, waiting for this one team to compete before awards.
 
At my old gym i was on a senior 2, and the senior 5 girls were allowed to cross down "for an extra work out" we had at like 8 senior 5 cross overs i think.
 
At my old gym i was on a senior 2, and the senior 5 girls were allowed to cross down "for an extra work out" we had at like 8 senior 5 cross overs i think.
Thats ridiculous...IMO if you need a lot of crossovers to make the team, you shouldn't have it. Work with what you have, don't stretch it to make more. But what bugs me more than crossing levels is majority of teams going from sr 5 down to jr 5, or j5 to youth 5. It drives me crazy.
 
Thats ridiculous...IMO if you need a lot of crossovers to make the team, you shouldn't have it. Work with what you have, don't stretch it to make more. But what bugs me more than crossing levels is majority of teams going from sr 5 down to jr 5, or j5 to youth 5. It drives me crazy.
I completely agree. we could have used one or 2 to fill out the team but we didn't need them for tumbling or anything like that.
 
Isn't it true that NCA only allows crossovers to the same level? Like sr 2 can cross to Y2, but not sr 4 to Y2?
 
Thank goodness someone FINALLY noticed the elephant in the room and started a discussion on crossovers. I thought we would NEVER get to it.

Now that I'm retired, I'm thinking of opening a gym and only have about 40 athletes, but enter a team in every division. The gym will be Allstar Crossover Extreme and we'll just have a big cross as our emblem.
 
I This seems to me to be a large disadvantage to gyms that do not take part in the mass crossovers , especially large gyms that do not need to .
Exactly, the large gyms don't need to. They have enough athletes to pull from that they can make a team with almost full team tumbling. So I understand why a smaller program might have kids cross down to a lower team to help boost their tumbling some.
On the other hand, I think excessive crossovers is unneeded. When more than 40% of your team crosses over because they couldn't be in that level without them, then maybe you should just go down a level. But there are circumstances I do understand. I give you the case of a 7 year old at my gym. She's on Mini 1 with all her friends and she has a stellar back walkover. She's also on Youth 3 because she had a solid back handspring, and is an excellent flier. I think there sre numerous instances like this where the kid deserves to crossover.
 
i know one girl whos on senior 3, senior open 5, and senior 4... in my opinon i think its crazy. but if you want to, and you have the time and effort to put intoit, its okay. unless you're a level 5 crossing down to a level 1 or 2... thats not fair.
 
I do think it is ridiculous when you have that many crossovers but I don't see crossing over in general as wrong and there isn't anything that can be said to me to make me think it isn't fair. Maybe that's because my cp is a crossover lol.

As I'm sure some have read another post where I brought this up I will say it again for the sake of the discussion!

My cp is 6 and has a good BHS and can fly at level 2. We do not have a mini 2 team and my cp was on the tiny team last year. All her friends who don't have BHS got moved up to mini1; whom she wanted to cheer with! My cp really wanted to compete her BHS as well so they let her do youth2. So in order to keep her with her age division instead of a bunch of 10 year olds who she does not know we let her do both!

Do I see anything wrong with it?!
Absolutely not- she is on a age appropriate team & a skill appropriate team!!!

With that being said we have a little over 100 athletes and initially we only started the season with 2! My cp and one other girl who crosses down from Sr. 4.2 to youth 2. She doesn't even have a BHS yet but she is needed on both teams- she is my daughters back base & we only have like 15 youth 2 people. So we are very small!!

Throughout the summer we got 3 more crossovers and that's probably about all.
One of them is another mini to youth crossovers. She has a good BHS so its all good!
We have a sr4 who crosses to jr3 & a sr4.2 who crosses to j3.

You are probably thinking with 3 crossovers to youth and we only have 15 why do we even need the youth 2 but honestly If we didn't the other ones are to old to go mini and only 3 of them could possibly do ok on a jr3 so that leaves 9 who would have no business on a jr3 team and too old for the mini team so we would definitely not be anything in small youth 2 if we just had those 9. So with gyms that don't have an enormous amount of athletes that is what you have to do & no one should be doubting that!

Now if half our Sr4 crossed down to our Sr 4.2 just to put all the really talented athletes on the floor that is different! But a few here and there at a small gym especially are usually needed!
 
The one thing I am mindful of is how it makes the kids feel who are truly at that level to have a bunch of higher level kids crossover and down to "help" them out. I have seen cases where it tore the team up because it sent the signal to those kids that they just weren't good enough. That they had to be "rescued" by the level 4 and 5's in order to have a good team. No matter how coaches try to spin it, they often feel hurt that they are not good enough to the point they need all this crossover help.

Until there is a solid crossover rule and the means and backbone to enforce it by USASF or Event producers (both highly unlikely) here will always be crossovers. There will always be that program that uses as many as they can to stack teams, make them more competitive, etc. For them winning or being competitive with other gyms means they crossover or get beat.

I still, like what KB said about it best last year on a thread about this same subject. "Whatever the reason my gym uses crossovers it is ok and legal; whatever reason another gym uses it is unfair and unethical." (paraphrasing) He was not agreeing with it; just being a tad sarcastic but he was right on point.
 
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