All-Star Crossover Limit ???

[imrichhowboutu]

I'd also like to throw out there that the USASF rule of limiting 1 person to 3 teams is a bit ridiculous. I dont think there should be any reason to have a single athlete on 3 teams.

They really need to readdress the % of each team. No more than 25% of your team can be on another team.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I believe @kingston said a while ago that a girl at rays competed on S2 despite having a double (she wasn't a crossover on level 5, she wanted to just be on S2 so that she could be with her friends), how does everyone feel about that?

No issues whatsoever. I have had girls that had higher level skills that wanted to cheer on a lower level skill for that reason and some others. Sometimes it was friends who wanted to cheer together and other times it was sisters or cousins who wanted "their own team" and not always be on the same team with their sister or cousin.

 

[tdittmar]

The one thing I am mindful of is how it makes the kids feel who are truly at that level to have a bunch of higher level kids crossover and down to "help" them out. I have seen cases where it tore the team up because it sent the signal to those kids that they just weren't good enough. That they had to be "rescued" by the level 4 and 5's in order to have a good team. No matter how coaches try to spin it, they often feel hurt that they are not good enough to the point they need all this crossover help.

My cp's team last year came to mind when I read this. I often wondered if they felt less than worthy with higher level girls making it possible for them to compete at the level they were at. I also know that if the coach's would have dropped a level to accomodate the group they had, parents and athletes would have flipped. In a smaller gym it's a delicate balance to make everyone happy without losing business.

 

[allstarspirit]

... I've seen it happen. I won't name the gym but they're pretty well known.. like it was at a bid competition. The senior 5 competed first and I watched all their crossovers run into senior 2's warmups as everyone was sitting backstage for at least like 20 minutes, waiting for this one team to compete before awards.

I'm not sure if your referring to the same team I am...but our gym was accused of this same situation last season when in fact it was NOT TRUE AT ALL...there was only ONE crossover from J5 who crossed as a fill in on that senior two team and because of the hold up everyone assumed there were more kids...there were absolutely no kids from senior 5 on it only two other fill INS from j3...it just stinks when people are inaccurate because it takes away from the amazing accomplishments the team of 34 had made all season. Not saying other gyms don't do it...it just stinks to get accused of it when it infect not true at all.

 

[tumbleyoda]

My cp's team last year came to mind when I read this. I often wondered if they felt less than worthy with higher level girls making it possible for them to compete at the level they were at. I also know that if the coach's would have dropped a level to accomodate the group they had, parents and athletes would have flipped. In a smaller gym it's a delicate balance to make everyone happy without losing business.

Unfortunately I have seen it about come to blows behind the issue. The true level kids were tired of being helped and assisted by the Level 5's. They were tired of their fliers being put on the floor and the smaller level 5 fliers put in the air. They in effect became "background dancers" to the higher level kids. While in no way do I condone the manner in which things blew up the athlete expressed what the majority felt but only would say among themselves.

I want to win as much as the next coach and I know that since crossovers are legal it may mean that I may very well be putting a true level team up against a crossover stacked team. True level 2's competing against True level 4 and 5's competing as 2's. That is a stacked deck even if they are throwing the same skills.

Losing is also bad for business - especially in a competitive market where there are many gym options - but I would rather take my risks there than in sending the message to the kids I work with that I dont' believe in them. I think that is one of the hidden costs of too many crossovers. JMO.

 

[cheeeeer93]

I'm not sure if your referring to the same team I am...but our gym was accused of this same situation last season when in fact it was NOT TRUE AT ALL...there was only ONE crossover from J5 who crossed as a fill in on that senior two team and because of the hold up everyone assumed there were more kids...there were absolutely no kids from senior 5 on it only two other fill INS from j3...it just stinks when people are inaccurate because it takes away from the amazing accomplishments the team of 34 had made all season. Not saying other gyms don't do it...it just stinks to get accused of it when it infect not true at all.

I have no clue if we're talking about the same team but in the situation I'm referring to I saw at least 7 or 8 kids running into warm up for this senior 2 team so it appeared as if they all came right off the mat from performing a level 5 routine.

 

[lilmonstermaker]

At my CPs gym (which is mid-sized so some and large to others I guess) it seems like crossing over is the rule instead of the exception. I think that the parents push more for it than the coaches do. Last year I think there were only 3 or 4 girls on her mini 3 that didn't cross to the youth 2 or the youth 1. The girls from the youth 2 were mostly crossovers from the mini 3, youth 3 and youth 1. I think there were a few girls that were solid youth 2 that couldn't be on mini 2 for age and didn't go up to senior 2 because of age as well. Some parents get pretty irate when you place their athlete on a lower level than what the athlete is truly capable of doing. The gym tried really hard to make sure there was an appropriate team for everyone.

This year started out differently. The original placements only had a few crossovers. I sat at a parent meeting and listened to parent after parent request that their athlete be allowed to cross-over for various reasons (flying was a popular one, but also many of the younger athletes liked their lower level teams because they were less work for them and therefore more fun). It seems like it is the gym culture to "live" there. It is not at all uncommon for athletes to be at our gym 5 days a week.

When your CP really loves to be at the gym, crossing over is really a great bargain. Some gyms don't charge at all for crossing over and our gym charges just an additional $30 a month for what could be an additional 4 hours of practice a week.

My CP is only doing one team this year and she is kind of disappointed, but I don't have the time this year to spend as much time at the gym as we did last year...

 

[TheVipersMom]

At my CPs gym (which is mid-sized so some and large to others I guess) it seems like crossing over is the rule instead of the exception. I think that the parents push more for it than the coaches do. Last year I think there were only 3 or 4 girls on her mini 3 that didn't cross to the youth 2 or the youth 1. The girls from the youth 2 were mostly crossovers from the mini 3, youth 3 and youth 1. I think there were a few girls that were solid youth 2 that couldn't be on mini 2 for age and didn't go up to senior 2 because of age as well. Some parents get pretty irate when you place their athlete on a lower level than what the athlete is truly capable of doing. The gym tried really hard to make sure there was an appropriate team for everyone.

This year started out differently. The original placements only had a few crossovers. I sat at a parent meeting and listened to parent after parent request that their athlete be allowed to cross-over for various reasons (flying was a popular one, but also many of the younger athletes liked their lower level teams because they were less work for them and therefore more fun). It seems like it is the gym culture to "live" there. It is not at all uncommon for athletes to be at our gym 5 days a week.

When your CP really loves to be at the gym, crossing over is really a great bargain. Some gyms don't charge at all for crossing over and our gym charges just an additional $30 a month for what could be an additional 4 hours of practice a week.

My CP is only doing one team this year and she is kind of disappointed, but I don't have the time this year to spend as much time at the gym as we did last year...

In that case I don't see anything wrong with it. My cp loves crossing over she flys on one team an bases on the other. Now flying was not the reason they put her on but for obvious reasons she does fly! If we had a mini 2 and a youth 2 team I wouldn't care if she did those both! It's more practice, it's more opportunity to learn and train in both aspects no matter what your position is!!

I wouldn't make her do it but she sets goals for her self and like today during her strength class the jr3 team was practicing and a few girls were getting mental with their tumbling and not throwing things that they have so it wasn't a pretty site but anyways my cp was like I want to practice with them! I was like now isn't a good time to ask the coach and their is no reason to because it's pointless but every opportunity she has she wants to be there and if there crossing over like that then I see no problem no matter how many it is doing it!!

 

[tdittmar]

Unfortunately I have seen it about come to blows behind the issue. The true level kids were tired of being helped and assisted by the Level 5's. They were tired of their fliers being put on the floor and the smaller level 5 fliers put in the air. They in effect became "background dancers" to the higher level kids. While in no way do I condone the manner in which things blew up the athlete expressed what the majority felt but only would say among themselves.

I want to win as much as the next coach and I know that since crossovers are legal it may mean that I may very well be putting a true level team up against a crossover stacked team. True level 2's competing against True level 4 and 5's competing as 2's. That is a stacked deck even if they are throwing the same skills.

Losing is also bad for business - especially in a competitive market where there are many gym options - but I would rather take my risks there than in sending the message to the kids I work with that I dont' believe in them. I think that is one of the hidden costs of too many crossovers. JMO.

I agree 100%!

 

[quitthedrama]

I have no clue if we're talking about the same team but in the situation I'm referring to I saw at least 7 or 8 kids running into warm up for this senior 2 team so it appeared as if they all came right off the mat from performing a level 5 routine.

I am pretty sure I know what comp and what gym you are referring to, and I saw the same thing - except it was far more than 7 or 8 kids leaving from the level 5 competition mat to level 2 warm-up mats, and it occured with younger teams as well. Also, at nearly every comp that season, you saw most of the kids on the level 5 teams sitting on the mat for level 1 and 2 awards. Unfortunately the gym is doing nothing illegal and are playing by the rules, so it is the rules that are the problem, and even with the OVERWHELMING feedback on this board and the votes on the rule change proposal, the rules committee ignored requests for the changes in crossover rules. IMO the crossover issue is one of the biggest problems we have and it frustrates me that USASF didn't take the opportunity to level the playing fields. The only upside is instead of seeing the same kids from gyms on 5 teams at a comp, we will only see them on 3:banghead:

 

[bobbijean13]

I was doing choreography this past weekend and specifically asked who was only on the specific team to make sure that a different level girl wasnt center for everything.

then you leave the gym and the coaches change everything to high light the crossovers

 

[notimeforthat]

For all of you that crossing your young ins to mini -youth-junior at levels 1 or 2 it may seem pretty harmless and actually beneficial for your cps. The problem is at the higher levels it really puts our sport in a diffrent light. If we want to legitimize this sport we have to limit the crossover rule.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

The USASF is taking a step in the right direction. They recognize a problem and they are taking baby steps to fix it. There wasn't any regulation on crossovers previously, so this season they are limiting the individual athlete. Next cycle it will probably be more about percentages.

Battle at the boardwalk in Atlantic city is a competition where you compete twice in one day. I couldn't image being on 3 teams and competing on each of them 2 times. That is 6 routines in a single day. That has to be too much.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

then you leave the gym and the coaches change everything to high light the crossovers

Im fairly certain at this gym they will leave it as I made it. If your level 3 girl and level 5 girl have the same skills then it shouldn't matter.

 

[TheVipersMom]

For all of you that crossing your young ins to mini -youth-junior at levels 1 or 2 it may seem pretty harmless and actually beneficial for your cps. The problem is at the higher levels it really puts our sport in a diffrent light. If we want to legitimize this sport we have to limit the crossover rule.

I can understand that but that may hurt smaller gyms. My cp should be a mini2 and a lot of small gyms can't support that so she gets the best of both worlds by doing mini 1 and youth 2.

We are moving so next year we are going to a larger gym and I told my cp unless she gets her tuck and she can fly or base level 3 she we will probably be put on a mini2 and not a youth2 like this year. I also told her if she has her level 3 skills they may put her on a mini 3 but since that's not as prevalent as mini 2 they may not have it and may have the availability to put her on a youth 3 if that's what she wants and they feel she is ready for. I mean I know this is all speculation but I couldn't choose if I was only to let my cp do 1 team this season! I mean I would let her do just mini 2 but we don't have that!!

I don't want to pull her off youth2 because she is getting great training and experience flying on that team and she loves it! On mini's she is with her friends and she is learning a lot on that team!

So in my situation what would you do if this was your cp?