All-Star Crossovers And Sandbagging

[Labegg]

There is no rule against cross overs. Small gyms can not survive without them and neither can large gyms. People quit and people get injured it's that simple.

What people tend to be upset about is that their own team is not competitive and are looking to blame someone else. Instead of looking at their own athletes or gym. LIFE is not fair, not everyone deserves a MEDAL. People learn from losing and it will make you stronger or it will break you.

Does this sport needs some tougher rules, yes. Should athletes have ID's to make sure they are age appropriate for the team they are on, yes. If the sport wants to limit the number of teams or levels an athlete can be on, they need to pass them. Same thing with Summit Bids If you want to eliminate stacking pass a rule that states 80% of the team that won the bid must compete at the event.

Until that happens you play the game with the rules you are given.

Like I said in my previous post people hate stacking, but as long as the athlete is age appropriate, all you can do is suck it up butter cup and compete.


No that's not what I am saying. I am a little older than most Parents here, I would guess, I was raised in a different era. Not everyone got a trophy. You competed with your friends, there wasn't an option to go somewhere else. Winning and loosing as a team builds character. The words loyalty meant something.

And yes small gyms do need double teamers. What happens a lot at least in the Gym we are at the Girls compete up not down. My CP's team small J3 team consists of 5 girls all youth age 12 jr age only 2 age out to seniors next year. Three of our girls compete also on a senior team or there would be no team. That senior team had one girl quit and one girl get injured so 2 more girls now double team.

Without double teamers Small Gyms would just fold up. They have to be able to field teams across all levels and ages or loose customers.

What I am saying is people today have a tough time looking at themselves and tend to put blame on someone else.

Do I have a problem with Stacking the answer is "yes".

Do I have a problem with cross overs "no".

My response to both suck it up butter cup and compete. Not everyone deserves a trophy, if you want it go out and earn it.

Believe me I understand. CP's team had 12 kids, one was injured in January. we worked the rest of the season with 11 kids, it wasn't a very successful season for us. Could we have pulled someone down from our R5 team, sure but it wasn't right, so we didn't. I am old school too, You do with what you got and you don't throw a fit, some years you win and some years you don't.

 

[CheerDad18]

Lol you are right every gym works differently. Both your argument and mine are probably oversimplifications of the actual situation. Because clearly a small gym can be successful without crossovers and clearly some small gym feel the need to rely on crossovers. Guess I was getting riled up by CheerDad18's statement that small gyms cannot survive without crossovers maybe there just needs to be a change in the business model.

Believe me I understand. CP's team had 12 kids, one was injured in January. we worked the rest of the season with 11 kids, it wasn't a very successful season for us. Could we have pulled someone down from our R5 team, sure but it wasn't right, so we didn't. I am old school too, You do with what you got and you don't throw a fit, some years you win and some years you don't.

Trust me our CP's Gym is not Sandbagging but we are surrounded by several large well known programs.

You can't expect your customers to stick around if there is not a reasonable level and size appropriate team. Most of our teams are 15 athletes 8 teams maybe half the teams start the year with 2 or 3 cross overs. Than injuries happen and you fill in. Some people quit.

 

[Cheermom1969]

There is no rule against cross overs. Small gyms can not survive without them and neither can large gyms. People quit and people get injured it's that simple.

What people tend to be upset about is that their own team is not competitive and are looking to blame someone else. Instead of looking at their own athletes or gym. LIFE is not fair, not everyone deserves a MEDAL. People learn from losing and it will make you stronger or it will break you.

Does this sport needs some tougher rules, yes. Should athletes have ID's to make sure they are age appropriate for the team they are on, yes. If the sport wants to limit the number of teams or levels an athlete can be on, they need to pass them. Same thing with Summit Bids If you want to eliminate stacking pass a rule that states 80% of the team that won the bid must compete at the event.

Until that happens you play the game with the rules you are given.

Like I said in my previous post people hate stacking, but as long as the athlete is age appropriate, all you can do is suck it up butter cup and compete.


No that's not what I am saying. I am a little older than most Parents here, I would guess, I was raised in a different era. Not everyone got a trophy. You competed with your friends, there wasn't an option to go somewhere else. Winning and loosing as a team builds character. The words loyalty meant something.

And yes small gyms do need double teamers. What happens a lot at least in the Gym we are at the Girls compete up not down. My CP's team small J3 team consists of 5 girls all youth age 12 jr age only 2 age out to seniors next year. Three of our girls compete also on a senior team or there would be no team. That senior team had one girl quit and one girl get injured so 2 more girls now double team.

Without double teamers Small Gyms would just fold up. They have to be able to field teams across all levels and ages or loose customers.

What I am saying is people today have a tough time looking at themselves and tend to put blame on someone else.

Do I have a problem with Stacking the answer is "yes".

Do I have a problem with cross overs "no".

My response to both suck it up butter cup and compete. Not everyone deserves a trophy, if you want it go out and earn it.

Your condescending words are hitting my ear wrong, I suppose. Or I'm just cranky. I don't think anyone is suggesting that every little "buttercup" needs to win a trophy. I certainly don't think my cp does and I was ok with them coming in second at NCA. My "buttercup" needed that lesson that you can't win them all. It was good for her. But that we came in second to a team that I've been told by more than one person from other gyms that this team specifically stacks this team with higher level kids, pisses me off. I would feel a lot more satisfaction, for lack of a better word, if we had lost to a true level 2 team of kids that worked just as hard at their true level as our girls did, but that the other team came out on top that day.

I don't think anyone would accuse our team and specifically our coach of not being competitive and wanting to place blame somewhere else. Just because I don't care to place "blame" doesn't mean I have to like the sandbagging system that is currently allowed.

 

[CheerDad18]

Your condescending words are hitting my ear wrong, I suppose. Or I'm just cranky. I don't think anyone is suggesting that every little "buttercup" needs to win a trophy. I certainly don't think my cp does and I was ok with them coming in second at NCA. My "buttercup" needed that lesson that you can't win them all. It was good for her. But that we came in second to a team that I've been told by more than one person from other gyms that this team specifically stacks this team with higher level kids, pisses me off. I would feel a lot more satisfaction, for lack of a better word, if we had lost to a true level 2 team of kids that worked just as hard at their true level as our girls did, but that the other team came out on top that day.

I don't think anyone would accuse our team and specifically our coach of not being competitive and wanting to place blame somewhere else.

Your condescending words are hitting my ear wrong, I suppose. Or I'm just cranky. I don't think anyone is suggesting that every little "buttercup" needs to win a trophy. I certainly don't think my cp does and I was ok with them coming in second at NCA. My "buttercup" needed that lesson that you can't win them all. It was good for her. But that we came in second to a team that I've been told by more than one person from other gyms that this team specifically stacks this team with higher level kids, pisses me off. I would feel a lot more satisfaction, for lack of a better word, if we had lost to a true level 2 team of kids that worked just as hard at their true level as our girls did, but that the other team came out on top that day.

I don't think anyone would accuse our team and specifically our coach of not being competitive and wanting to place blame somewhere else. Just because I don't care to place "blame" doesn't mean I have to like the sandbagging system that is currently allowed.

My comments were in general. They were not directed to you.

If you read my comments I do not support stacking!

What I am saying is life is not fair and all you can do is compete. You control your own destiny.

Sorry if you were offended.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

Heavy crossovers/stacking to me seems to encourage the "everyone should win a trophy" mentality more than the choice not to cross. If you can't win a trophy in your appropriate/higher division then just drop a few levels so you can win one there.

 

[Cheermom1969]

My comments were in general. They were not directed to you.

If you read my comments I do not support stacking!

What I am saying is life is not fair and all you can do is compete. You control your own destiny.

Sorry if you were offended.

I'm not offended, just irritated at the argument that people need to suck it up. That's usually coming from someone whose kid is or has been on a sandbagging team. (Not you, in this case because you have stated your cp's team situation) I will suck it up and so will my cp and it's part of the lesson of life. But it does not mean I have to approve of or condone sandbagging. I will fight it if ever possible. I will be the parent that doesn't let my kid go from level 4 to level 1. H*ll to the no! Because if my daughter ever gets to level 4, it will be a tumbling miracle! lol

 

[Cheermom1969]

Heavy crossovers/stacking to me seems to encourage the "everyone should win a trophy" mentality more than the choice not to cross. If you can't win a trophy in your appropriate/higher division then just drop a few levels so you can win one there.

Good point!

 

[CheerDad18]

I'm not offended, just irritated at the argument that people need to suck it up. That's usually coming from someone whose kid is or has been on a sandbagging team. (Not you, in this case because you have stated your cp's team situation) I will suck it up and so will my cp and it's part of the lesson of life. But it does not mean I have to approve of or condone sandbagging. I will fight it if ever possible. I will be the parent that doesn't let me kid go from level 4 to level 1. H*ll to the no! Because if my daughter ever gets to level 4, it will be a tumbling miracle! lol

Unfortunately until there are rules that are different, than they are now this debate will go on forever. One persons sand bagging is another's cross offer. I saw a very small level one team that was created to do nothing but win and I am sure they all were level 3 athletes.

They maxed out the score sheet at another competition and were Grand Champs we saw them at and they won again last weekend.

I believe our gym lost Grand Champs to them by 2/10s.

Unfortunately small gyms do need cross overs and a perfect example why can be seen in these forums " how do I shop for a gym for my daughters level?" People leave gyms all the time for lack of an appropriate team for their kids and they typically don't comeback when you have that team next year.

Do I think you should be able to compete up or down one level yes. Do I think you should be on more than two teams, no. Do I think a level 5 athlete should be able to go down below level 4 no. I would be in favor of a rule that stated you could have no more than 1/3 of your team as a double teamer.

But I don't think it will happen so all you can do is compete.

 

[calikaitlyn_]

I don't see why some aspects of crossovers are so hard. For example I have a friend from a nearby gym. I recently found out he's on level 5 and 4.2. It wasn't because of an injury, sickness etc. It shouldn't be hard to see that this is wrong. This 4.2 is going to summit and competing against our (cali) 4.2 team. I don't think it's fair at ALL that a guy with a double and standing full should be competing against all of the girls I know on that team that only have a backhandspring. It's not fair, it's not right, and we shouldn't have to "suck it up". This same gym competed against my team in another level also with a heavy amount of crossovers. Did they beat us? No. So it's possible to win. But it shouldn't have to be something we worry about.

Ps Why on earth would you cross down to level 1. Back walkovers are hell:p

 

[Helen uk uni cheer]

I don't see why some aspects of crossovers are so hard. For example I have a friend from a nearby gym. I recently found out he's on level 5 and 4.2. It wasn't because of an injury, sickness etc. It shouldn't be hard to see that this is wrong. This 4.2 is going to summit and competing against our (cali) 4.2 team. I don't think it's fair at ALL that a guy with a double and standing full should be competing against all of the girls I know on that team that only have a backhandspring. It's not fair, it's not right, and we shouldn't have to "suck it up". This same gym competed against my team in another level also with a heavy amount of crossovers. Did they beat us? No. So it's possible to win. But it shouldn't have to be something we worry about.

Ps Why on earth would you cross down to level 1. Back walkovers are hell:p

On your Last bit about level 1 tell me about it I really hope I can do level 2 next year. There was a 12 year old trying to show me how to walk hands down a wall into bridge she was in pretzel mode and me I was like no way can my 21 year old body can bend like that

 

[crazzyeyesassypants]

I don't see why some aspects of crossovers are so hard. For example I have a friend from a nearby gym. I recently found out he's on level 5 and 4.2. It wasn't because of an injury, sickness etc. It shouldn't be hard to see that this is wrong. This 4.2 is going to summit and competing against our (cali) 4.2 team. I don't think it's fair at ALL that a guy with a double and standing full should be competing against all of the girls I know on that team that only have a backhandspring. It's not fair, it's not right, and we shouldn't have to "suck it up". This same gym competed against my team in another level also with a heavy amount of crossovers. Did they beat us? No. So it's possible to win. But it shouldn't have to be something we worry about.

Ps Why on earth would you cross down to level 1. Back walkovers are hell:p

There needs to be some regulations about cross overs, I don't mind when people cross over one level and it's not the whole squad, imo it shouldn't be more than 20% of crossovers per squad.
Small gym people please don't get offended when I say this but I'm so tired of hearing that if small gyms don't have crossovers they won't be able to field teams! I get that sometimes injuries happen and athletes leave at the last minute and you might need to use a few crossovers but it isn't fair to have a FULL team of crossovers! This season my cp's team got beat out by a small gym that crossed all their S4.2 team to a S1 [emoji35] and they also crossed half of the team to a J1. All their S1 flyers were amazing but of course they would be since they have competed the whole season doing level 4 stunts! This team got a Paid bid to the Summit and I don't think it's fair for the rest of the teams that are a true level 1 to have to compete against them [emoji57]
If small gyms feel like they have to sandbag teams then I wish that more comps had small gyms competing against each other only, we only had a few comps that had a small gym divisions this season. I know that small gyms are not the only ones that utilize crossovers but I've noticed that they seem to use more crossovers per team than larger gyms, at least in our area it has been this way.
Oh and a level J5 flyer has no business crossing over to a J2 to fly! [emoji35]
I caught CHEERBOLA over the weekend at comp so I'm a little grouchy today...



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[klynn64]

There needs to be some regulations about cross overs, I don't mind when people cross over one level and it's not the whole squad, imo it shouldn't be more than 20% of crossovers per squad.
Small gym people please don't get offended when I say this but I'm so tired of hearing that if small gyms don't have crossovers they won't be able to field teams! I get that sometimes injuries happen and athletes leave at the last minute and you might need to use a few crossovers but it isn't fair to have a FULL team of crossovers! This season my cp's team got beat out by a small gym that crossed all their S4.2 team to a S1 [emoji35] and they also crossed half of the team to a J1. All their S1 flyers were amazing but of course they would be since they have competed the whole season doing level 4 stunts! This team got a Paid bid to the Summit and I don't think it's fair for the rest of the teams that are a true level 1 to have to compete against them [emoji57]
If small gyms feel like they have to sandbag teams then I wish that more comps had small gyms competing against each other only, we only had a few comps that had a small gym divisions this season. I know that small gyms are not the only ones that utilize crossovers but I've noticed that they seem to use more crossovers per team than larger gyms, at least in our area it has been this way.
Oh and a level J5 flyer has no business crossing over to a J2 to fly! [emoji35]
I caught CHEERBOLA over the weekend at comp so I'm a little grouchy today...



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I like that "Cheerbola".

 

[MissCongeniality]

There needs to be some regulations about cross overs, I don't mind when people cross over one level and it's not the whole squad, imo it shouldn't be more than 20% of crossovers per squad.
Small gym people please don't get offended when I say this but I'm so tired of hearing that if small gyms don't have crossovers they won't be able to field teams! I get that sometimes injuries happen and athletes leave at the last minute and you might need to use a few crossovers but it isn't fair to have a FULL team of crossovers! This season my cp's team got beat out by a small gym that crossed all their S4.2 team to a S1 [emoji35] and they also crossed half of the team to a J1. All their S1 flyers were amazing but of course they would be since they have competed the whole season doing level 4 stunts! This team got a Paid bid to the Summit and I don't think it's fair for the rest of the teams that are a true level 1 to have to compete against them [emoji57]
If small gyms feel like they have to sandbag teams then I wish that more comps had small gyms competing against each other only, we only had a few comps that had a small gym divisions this season. I know that small gyms are not the only ones that utilize crossovers but I've noticed that they seem to use more crossovers per team than larger gyms, at least in our area it has been this way.
Oh and a level J5 flyer has no business crossing over to a J2 to fly! [emoji35]
I caught CHEERBOLA over the weekend at comp so I'm a little grouchy today...



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I missed you at the comp because I was trying to stay far away and high above the cheerbola ... And yet I still caught it. For $45 I expect a paper/plastic pos bracelet and something better than a folding seat on a flat floor behind a standing priority section. Oh wait...that's right priority should "kneel" ;) Seriously...lol!

 

[crazzyeyesassypants]

I missed you at the comp because I was trying to stay far away and high above the cheerbola ... And yet I still caught it. For $45 I expect a paper/plastic pos bracelet and something better than a folding seat on a flat floor behind a standing priority section. Oh wait...that's right priority should "kneel" ;) Seriously...lol!

We left early Saturday, around 11:30 am, so we definitely missed each other [emoji30] the only plus of this comp for me was that I didn't have to pay to get in [emoji12] but now that I think about it, I probably got the CHEERBOLA backstage, when I was hanging out back there [emoji23][emoji12]


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[TheDivineCheerYaYaSecret]

So I am reading on another thread about a CP crossing/competing on two teams at Summit (I think it was a R5 to 4 ) and it made me think...here we are blaming EPs for allowing and gyms for using crossovers and sandbagging but we as parents can solve this problem, just don't let your CP do it...period. Choose a level and stick to it, Fine, cross from a jr to sr age team if you think you have to be on 2 teams, but stay in the same level. It is that simple. Change starts at home...

Yes that would be me. CP is a flyer on a SR5 and is basing for the first time this year on a Y4. Yes both of those teams are competing at the Summit.

Edited to put a bold type face on two words.