All-Star Crossovers And Sandbagging

[AlwaysLearning]

So here is my solution to the problem:

Majority if not all gyms register their athletes on the USASF site correct? (I know I got the email from USASF that I had to scan my CP's birth certificate etc to verify age and what not)... Now when I saw her page which also has a section to add a picture, the gym she currently participates with was listed. Ok so why doesn't USASF make it mandatory for the gym to select what level/division that athlete is competing in... For example
Jane Doe
DOB: 00/00/1900
Gym: Wobble All Stars
Division/Level (Then it would be select those that apply)
Youth / Junior / Senior
1 2 3 4 4.2 5 5R
and it should be programmed in a way that if you are in a level 5 team then you can only cross down lets say one level to level 4 for example.... if you're in a level 2 then u can cross down or up one level....

This way when gyms participate in usasf events etc, and large competitions, a complete roster is already given, you will know which athletes are on more than one team/level/division etc....

that way you can not register your level 5 athletes to perform on a level 1 or 2 team.... I understand crossovers ( i coach i get that sometimes is necessary and many times girls love crossover because its more mat time for them lol) but i completely disagree with stacking or sandbagging in order to win

and to clarify with our experience this past weekend... this gym was not small at all and their level 5 athletes competed in their level 3 and 2 as well (at least the ones I watched)

Your idea is very similar to how soccer does it. Clubs provide rosters to the league and the league locks them after a certain date. Kids can only play up 2 age groups or divisions - can never move down. Clubs get around it by registering the kid on lowest level team. Kids can only be rostered on one team and listed as a sub for the other team. Injuries happen. Kids leave. Clubs have to take that into consideration when building their teams because they're out of luck if things go wrong.

Jumping off your thoughts:
Gym uploads birth certificates & photos to USASF site
Gym creates team rosters in site including declaring the div & level each team will be competing at for the year
USASF locks rosters on certain date
USASF issues ID cards to gyms (they can download & print on their own to cut cost to USASF)

Teams can elect to move up during the season, but can not move down or back down
Only allow 15-20% of team to be crossovers
Athletes can only cross up/down 1 level
Check USASF ID's at every comp as teams enter warmup

No system will be perfect & one could never account for all instances. The idea would be to create a system for gyms to work within. There will be times a team is screwed, but that's life. It will be the gym's responsibility to try to avoid those situations at all costs, but it may not be avoidable.

It's happened to us in soccer. For example: Due to the limit of subs on a team & flaky team members we've played games with less people on the field than the other team. We played 10 players to their 11 on the field plus their 3-4 subs on the sidelines. We lost games we could have won. We didn't like it, but we knew the rules and accepted it.


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[klynn64]

There are some people who leave gyms "because they are not winning", but you have to sometimes look at the reasons behind why they aren't winning. That in itself will sometimes give you more concrete reasons versus just simply saying "because we are not winning". Is it because the gym puts kids on the team who really should not be? Are they fielding a higher level team than they should to make sure they keep the money in their gym? Are they able to make the necessary adjustments within the program when emergencies arise (injuries, sickness, weather)? Do they listen to their customers concerns/questions? With the makeup of teams changing yearly, gyms have to adapt to those changes, thus gyms have changes yearly. These yearly changes could include the types of comps they attend, the level/number of teams, cost, etc. If gyms have the choice to make these changes/decisions, their customers have that right as well. Whether we want to believe it or not, GYMS ARE A BUSINESS, and since they are a business, we are the customers. Gyms choose what is best for their business therefore customers need to choose what is best for themselves.
I think the waters get a little "muddied" up because of how much time we spend with the gyms/athletes/parents. The investment of so much time adds the element of emotion to the equation. Every gym has their issues, but each person has to decide for themselves what they can deal with and what they cannot. I find it interesting that some gyms can make their bottom line about money, but expect their customers to overlook that and remain "loyal".

Very well stated.

 

[Helen uk uni cheer]

Your idea is very similar to how soccer does it. Clubs provide rosters to the league and the league locks them after a certain date. Kids can only play up 2 age groups or divisions - can never move down. Clubs get around it by registering the kid on lowest level team. Kids can only be rostered on one team and listed as a sub for the other team. Injuries happen. Kids leave. Clubs have to take that into consideration when building their teams because they're out of luck if things go wrong.

Jumping off your thoughts:
Gym uploads birth certificates & photos to USASF site
Gym creates team rosters in site including declaring the div & level each team will be competing at for the year
USASF locks rosters on certain date
USASF issues ID cards to gyms (they can download & print on their own to cut cost to USASF)

Teams can elect to move up during the season, but can not move down or back down
Only allow 15-20% of team to be crossovers
Athletes can only cross up/down 1 level
Check USASF ID's at every comp as teams enter warmup

No system will be perfect & one could never account for all instances. The idea would be to create a system for gyms to work within. There will be times a team is screwed, but that's life. It will be the gym's responsibility to try to avoid those situations at all costs, but it may not be avoidable.

It's happened to us in soccer. For example: Due to the limit of subs on a team & flaky team members we've played games with less people on the field than the other team. We played 10 players to their 11 on the field plus their 3-4 subs on the sidelines. We lost games we could have won. We didn't like it, but we knew the rules and accepted it.


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What happenes if there is injury or they need to go cross 2 levels because that is all the gym has
my gym is 28 athletes strong with a senior 1 and senior coed 3 with 3 cross overs. 2 of the 3 are not level 3 tumblers it would hurt us a lot

 

[dawgshow]

What happenes if there is injury or they need to go cross 2 levels because that is all the gym has
my gym is 28 athletes strong with a senior 1 and senior coed 3 with 3 cross overs. 2 of the 3 are not level 3 tumblers it would hurt us a lot

Unfortunately, if we made rules that took into account all exceptions, there would be no rules. Like it is now.

 

[Helen uk uni cheer]

Unfortunately, if we made rules that took into account all exceptions, there would be no rules. Like it is now.

An idea I have is make the rule no crossing 2 levels but have R5 count as a level and not count level 6 so that means the lowest a level 5 can go is level 4 which may give smaller gyms more flexibility and others when injuries arise but still giving some control form level 5 -2

 

[kelamb9]

I know that while it may be frustrating for teams competing against teams that pull athletes down from a higher level, it is probably good for the kids to take a break from a more stressful team and have fun rather than focus on only skills.

 

[Pebbles49]

:confused::eek:

I know that while it may be frustrating for teams competing against teams that pull athletes down from a higher level, it is probably good for the kids to take a break from a more stressful team and have fun rather than focus on only skills.

Before I go back to lurking, I must respond to this post...Omigod, this statement is so wrong...A L5 team should not be able to compete L1/L2 just for the FUN of it, Whaaat! So, @kelamb9, you will be for L1/L2 Jr or Sr athletes to compete Tiny or Mini, just because it is sooo CUTE!

PS: Regardless, if L4/L5 athletes are only competing L1/L2 for fun...these athletes L4/L5 still collect the trophies and jackets...What is fun about that for true L1/L2 cheerleaders?

 

[kelamb9]

:confused::eek:
Before I go back to lurking, I must respond to this post...Omigod, this statement is so wrong...A L5 team should not be able to compete L1/L2 just for the FUN of it, Whaaat! So, @kelamb9, you will be for L1/L2 Jr or Sr athletes to compete Tiny or Mini, just because it is sooo CUTE!

PS: Regardless, if L4/L5 athletes are only competing L1/L2 for fun...these athletes L4/L5 still collect the trophies and jackets...What is fun about that for true L1/L2 cheerleaders?

I'm not saying that they should cross over multiple levels, only one at the most and still in the same age group. If your on a senior team, you need to compete only senior. This would just be to help athletes to stick to cheerleader and prevent them from getting burned out.

 

[Pebbles49]

:splat:@kelamb9, I can agree with your statements, if and only if, L4/L5 decided to compete L1/L2 for FUN in the exhibition category and leave those trophies and jackets for the true L1/L2 cheerleaders, who are competing for REAL! Otherwise, L4/L5 competing L1/L2 is simply wrong and I will classify this as SANDBAGGING and not FUN! JMLO

 

[KDCheerMom]

I'm not saying that they should cross over multiple levels, only one at the most and still in the same age group. If your on a senior team, you need to compete only senior. This would just be to help athletes to stick to cheerleader and prevent them from getting burned out.

I think your heart is in the right place - but if they are level appropriate - it should not be that stressful - most if not all should be solid with level skills. I think burnout comes from other places - then competing at your level. JMHO.

 

[CheerDad18]

Well, given what I am seeing in our gym in the weeks leading up to tryouts I am praying that they make the decision to use crossovers this year. Otherwise I just cannot see how we can field level appropriate teams. We just don't have enough kids. I just don think that crossing kids between say Junior 3 and Youth 2 or Youth 2 and Mini 1 is such a bad thing in a gym where it needs to be done to field a team for everyone. I am talking 10-12 kids per team with everyone having an opportunity to compete close to their level and still have a team with the 75% needed to get into the high range. I just don't think it can be done without crossovers.

I honestly don't have a problem with what you are hoping your gym probably needs to do. You are looking for them to create a team, that has a reasonable amount of athletes to perform a small team routine. You are not want them to take a bunch of level 3 athletes to compete level 1 and crush the competition.

 

[cheer25mom]

I honestly don't have a problem with what you are hoping your gym probably needs to do. You are looking for them to create a team, that has a reasonable amount of athletes to perform a small team routine. You are not want them to take a bunch of level 3 athletes to compete level 1 and crush the competition.

Thanks for that. They a different philosophy this past season that really didn't work. We had no level 1 team and no crossovers, almost half the small youth 2 team really should have been level 1, and that continued up the ladder. I really would have rather seen us field a team of 10-12 that could be competitive rather than maxing out the numbers for small and not doing well.


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