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With a set skill range for majority, what is the incentive for doing anymore skills than half plus one. I could use the remaining half minus one to start to max out other areas in the same counts.
In level 3 if you did an extended 1 leg stunt, but didn't do two leg full down, would that drop you to the .5 of the range below? What if you did like a maxed out level 2 stunt in level 3, is it an automatic .5 of the lower range or could it be .8? If someone did just level 1 stunts at level 3 would they still be at that same .5?
Also, if you hit all of the listed skills, does that put you at the bottom of the range or middle?
have you thought about a transitions or load ins and dismounts type score in stunts and pyramids to score all of the full ups, double downs tick tocks handstand over the back, and flips and release moves separate from the actual stunt or pyramid?
Just reading back through the thread and some of the ideas thrown out, just my few minor suggestions/thoughts. My major concern is simplification, as not only does this help coaches/athletes, it also helps parents/fans, thereby cutting down argument and unnecessary debate:
*Ratio multiplier for skills (x number of girls you should be throwing y #of skills). I like this, just make it simple to understand per section (building, tumbling etc). How will it effect your score? Under which part (execution? difficulty? It's own section?) Since you're using ranges, will it hurt your range placement as in 7.5 instead of 8 [if that's the max]? What about a team like CEA who does above the level 5 compulsory for skills but uses 8 stunt groups in one section (just as an example)?
*If you're going to use a ratio multiplier for deductions, same as above. Simplification. As an outsider, this could be simple OR difficult to understand, depending on how you choose to implement it, if you even choose to. I'd need to see the concept in action against an actual team's routine (pick any video) and show me how it would work.
*If you're not going to use a deduction multiplier (or even if you are) what are the basic deductions for skills? Make sure it's explicitly labeled as clear as you can make it what constitutes a bobble, a fall, a 'collapse' (when the stunt comes down to the ground/or falls worse than a cradle catch), a touchdown, a bust. What happens when part of a pyramid doesn't go? How do you deduct on that? I'm assuming we haven't addressed these things yet, but they're popping in my head as I go along.
I'm sure I'll think of other things as I go along.
Ok so I read through and most posts are using the current system and modifying it..
mine would require a little education for Judges, coaches, and choreographers but I think it would retain cheerleading's creativity but add a system that diminishes bias. I will use a small sample to try and get my point across.
The idea would be to require every routine be given a start value in each category equal to the level competing.
Level 1 Points allowed 4 - 5
standing tumbling
Start Value 4
Few level skills
Start Value 4.1
Majority fwd rolls, bkwd rolls,
Start value 4.3
few bridge kickovers, few back walkovers
start value 4.5
majority back walkovers
start value 4.7
majority back walkover series
BONUS
technique .2
creativity .1
So say Team A has full squad Fwd rolls PLUS a few bridge kick overs and I had great creativity and good technique my score would be ...
Start Value 4.3 PLUS a creativity bonus of .1 PLUS good technique bonus .2 for a score of 4.6
and Team B has full squad back walkovers but average creativity and technique
Start Value 4.5 no bonus for a score of 4.5
-OR-
Team A full Squad walkover series PLUS great technique
Start Value 4.7 PLUS technique bonus of .2 for a 4.9
Team B has full squad Bkwd rolls PLUS few Back walkovers PLUS great technique and creativity
Start Value 4.3 Plus .3 bonus for a score of 4.6
Now as a coach and choreographer I need to know my squads skills PLUS what my start value could be and what bonus points I could be given and then use my creativity to achieve my highest score possible.
As a judge I must be alert to the skills thrown and use my judgment ONLY in awarding the appropriate bonus points.
The start value would be identified by the judges at the time of performance in the same way they identify ranges now only the judge would be given less ability to use personal preference to assign value. At the moment my Jr 1 could do back walkovers and your Jr 1 could do back walkovers and the judge could put you at the top of the range and me at the bottom based solely on his or her own preference. They may like your uniform more, or my music, or your bow, etc. etc.
But with this system we both get the same start value and if we do our job well we both get the technique bonus and then it is only the creativity bonus that the judge can screw up LOL
I like the ratio multiplier. It would not be done by the judge scoring the skill, but by the people afterwords. It would be non-subjective score thing, but it might take more though to apply after the scoresheet itself is setup.
I do not like deduction ratio, but there is a possibility. I am starting to think for this scoring system to work (and I think it will work) it will require a strong software program that is easy to use for judges. Doing it all on paper leads to mistakes in tabulation anyway.
As for all deductions, I think skill specific deductions should take off in the skill categories. you bust a jump back, it is a deduction in jump backs. your tumbler across the front of stunts busts a full.. comes off in tumbling. Numbers are not important at this stage as the WAY the numbers are applied.
I just threw in deduction multiplier because someone else mentioned it..It seems very complicated, and maybe something that can be added in later once all the ideas are hammered out.
I like the idea of attaching the deductions to the skill itself..although I was curious about something (don't think it would work well, or maybe this is what you are trying to say/this is deduction ratio-multiplier?), if deductions would take away from your majority? As in you need, let's say 5 stunts or something to hit majority, and one falls. It takes away from your majority score. It would put the emphasis on hitting things well instead of throwing something up and hoping for the best..
I just threw in deduction multiplier because someone else mentioned it..It seems very complicated, and maybe something that can be added in later once all the ideas are hammered out.
I like the idea of attaching the deductions to the skill itself..although I was curious about something (don't think it would work well, or maybe this is what you are trying to say/this is deduction ratio-multiplier?), if deductions would take away from your majority? As in you need, let's say 5 stunts or something to hit majority, and one falls. It takes away from your majority score. It would put the emphasis on hitting things well instead of throwing something up and hoping for the best..
Well, what if all advanced skills were .05, elite skills were .1, super elite skills were .15, and elite combinations were .15?
Like a power press (for as simple as it is) is still not easy. That is worth a .05. A fullup is elite, so thast worth .1.
1.5 up immediate stretch is .15? maybe .2?
Then I am not sure if this is a good or bad combo. The subjective part is a the execution / creativity category. I don't know if I like those, but JUST a creativity category isnt good.
Play around with it.
Same can be applied to most categories. And then does this translate correctly to the lower levels?
actually, i think that is what i would like. difficulty would be kinda be set in stone. it is the technique you use, how you do it and your creativity that would be the subjective part.
but HOW exactly to do that and remember all those numbers is the issue. we would be pigeonholing judges into just knowing 1 level REALLY well.