All-Star General 22-23 Season Announcements: Teams/Divisions, New Locations, Mergers, Closures etc.

Apr 2, 2011
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Yes, that's a fine argument for having a NT-Level 6 division at Worlds. Although I'd equate NT to an ice skating routine where the skater can skip the jumping part or whatever other part of the routine they don't want to do (such as lifts in the pair skating division)--- which isn't an option that exists. You either do the whole routine or you don't compete. This means a lot of athletes will never be able to compete at Worlds- which is kinda the whole point.

But clearly NT serves a purpose for gyms and should exist for all the reasons people above have mentioned, just maybe not at Worlds. Summit is already very crowded though, so it's unlikely it would move there.

My post was more about Level 5 being a Worlds division for International teams and how this is "dumbed down" and unnecessary. I wasn't calling Level 5 "dumb", but it is indeed a step below the highest level. And I don't know of a sport on earth where the second-highest level is allowed to compete at a Worlds (or whatever is deemed the highest ranking competition in a sport). If that was ever an option in the US, I think Level 6 would run the risk of facing near extinction, because there would be way less incentive to bother pushing yourself to that level. At least NT requires you to have some actual Level 6 skill.



Yes, so NT gives "non-Worlds level" athletes a chance to get to Worlds, which doesn't make much sense. But I totally agree that NT serves a purpose and allows athletes to continue cheer when they otherwise might not have been able to. While I don't think these teams need to be at Worlds, NT's existence probably isn't harming "actual Level 6" that much.



Some gyms only offer a NT-Level 6 team, so yes, an athlete with a full may be on a NT team. Even at one of the "big gyms", I knew of an athlete with a full on NT(maybe she didn't fit on another team). If Suzy's small gym only has a NT-Level 6 team, how hard is Suzy going to push to learn Level 6 tumbling skills? If your ultimate goal in your gym is to get onto the NT team, why bother pushing yourself that hard in tumbling at all.

Yes Worlds is expanding, but it's expanding in NT, not really in the other Level 6 divisions. But I doubt NT will kill Level 6. If they ever let US-Level 5 compete at Worlds though, it might legitimately kill Level 6. You cannot treat Level 5 and Level 6 as the same thing and give them the same exact experience because then Level 6 will just disappear aside from a handful of gyms, and then it that case, what's the point of the level at all. Level 6 routines are what attract many people to this sport, so it's obviously important that we keep it afloat and make sure there are incentives for having Level 6 teams in your gym.

Ice dancing is literally figure skating without the lifts or jumps that’s an Olympic sport. Like that’s literally what it is.
 

oncecoolcoachnowmom

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CEA Raleigh 22-23 TEAMS

Little Orcas - Tiny Exhibition (NEW)
Tiny Turtles - Tiny Novice
Baby Sharks - Tiny 1
Tiny X - Tiny 1
Glitter - Y1
Lovespell - J1
Mini Mingos - M2 (NEW)
Shimmer - Y2
Mermaids - Y2
Frost - U16 L2
Angels - S2 (Old team, new division)
Bombshells - S2 (Old team, new division)
Ice Queens - J3
Senior 3lite - S3
Juicy - J4
Youth X - Y5 (returning!)
Lady Venom - S5 (NEW)
SJX - J6 (doesn't say if coed or not this year.)



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Yes, that's a fine argument for having a NT-Level 6 division at Worlds. Although I'd equate NT to an ice skating routine where the skater can skip the jumping part or whatever other part of the routine they don't want to do (such as lifts in the pair skating division)--- which isn't an option that exists. You either do the whole routine or you don't compete. This means a lot of athletes will never be able to compete at Worlds- which is kinda the whole point.

But clearly NT serves a purpose for gyms and should exist for all the reasons people above have mentioned, just maybe not at Worlds. Summit is already very crowded though, so it's unlikely it would move there.

My post was more about Level 5 being a Worlds division for International teams and how this is "dumbed down" and unnecessary. I wasn't calling Level 5 "dumb", but it is indeed a step below the highest level. And I don't know of a sport on earth where the second-highest level is allowed to compete at a Worlds (or whatever is deemed the highest ranking competition in a sport). If that was ever an option in the US, I think Level 6 would run the risk of facing near extinction, because there would be way less incentive to bother pushing yourself to that level. At least NT requires you to have some actual Level 6 skill.



Yes, so NT gives "non-Worlds level" athletes a chance to get to Worlds, which doesn't make much sense. But I totally agree that NT serves a purpose and allows athletes to continue cheer when they otherwise might not have been able to. While I don't think these teams need to be at Worlds, NT's existence probably isn't harming "actual Level 6" that much.



Some gyms only offer a NT-Level 6 team, so yes, an athlete with a full may be on a NT team. Even at one of the "big gyms", I knew of an athlete with a full on NT(maybe she didn't fit on another team). If Suzy's small gym only has a NT-Level 6 team, how hard is Suzy going to push to learn Level 6 tumbling skills? If your ultimate goal in your gym is to get onto the NT team, why bother pushing yourself that hard in tumbling at all.

Yes Worlds is expanding, but it's expanding in NT, not really in the other Level 6 divisions. But I doubt NT will kill Level 6. If they ever let US-Level 5 compete at Worlds though, it might legitimately kill Level 6. You cannot treat Level 5 and Level 6 as the same thing and give them the same exact experience because then Level 6 will just disappear aside from a handful of gyms, and then it that case, what's the point of the level at all. Level 6 routines are what attract many people to this sport, so it's obviously important that we keep it afloat and make sure there are incentives for having Level 6 teams in your gym.
im not big on assuming just because something looks easy, must mean its easy. I doubt ice dancing is easy, easier then actual figure skating, sure but that stuff is not a cake walk.
and i hope we are aware that there are plenty of athletes on level 5/6 worlds teams, that dont tumble at all either, but that doesnt make them any less an athlete then the ones who do. And now that we have essentially done away with whole team jumps to back for the most part, im guessing there are quite a few athletes on a true level 5/6 team who dont have any tumbling parts.
i think worlds, bottom line is, they want more money, they want more international teams to come to worlds, non tumbling division gives them both. Eventually when a sport becomes lucrative and large enough, fairness or the best of the best takes a back seat to the money making side.
 
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oncecoolcoachnowmom

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im not big on assuming just because something looks easy, must mean its easy. I doubt ice dancing is easy, easier then actual figure skating, sure but that stuff is not a cake walk.
and i hope we are aware that there are plenty of athletes on level 5/6 worlds teams, that dont tumble at all either, but that doesnt make them any less an athlete then the ones who do. And now that we have essentially done away with whole team jumps to back for the most part, im guessing there are quite a few athletes on a true level 5/6 team who dont have any tumbling parts.
i think worlds, bottom line is, they want more money, they want more international teams to come to worlds, non tumbling division gives them both. Eventually when a sport becomes lucrative and large enough, fairness or the best of the best takes a back seat to the money making side.

I agree about NT not being being easier.


I believe NT routines have three elite stunts.

When I actively cheered I was a flyer but I also tumbled. I was also usually the trick flyer in the pyramid and not the prep. And in baskets.

For me personally it would be way harder for me to be in a routine like NT where I just stunted because I would literally be stunting back to back and then into like 2-3 consecutive pyramid elements.

In a tumbling routine I at least had a few counts to catch my breath before my one pass.
 
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WORLD ELITE (Cleveland/Akron, OH)

Mini Prep 1.1 - Diva Dolls
Small Tiny 1 - Boss Babes
Small Mini 1 - Glam Girls
Small Youth 1 - Fearless
Medium Junior 1 - Intensity
Medium Junior 2 - Authority
Small Junior 3 - Legacy
Small Junior 4 - Sovereignty
Small Senior 4.2 - Dynasty
Senior Open 6 - Crave
 
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I agree about NT not being being easier.


I believe NT routines have three elite stunts.

When I actively cheered I was a flyer but I also tumbled. I was also usually the trick flyer in the pyramid and not the prep. And in baskets.

For me personally it would be way harder for me to be in a routine like NT where I just stunted because I would literally be stunting back to back and then into like 2-3 consecutive pyramid elements.

In a tumbling routine I at least had a few counts to catch my breath before my one pass.

On my NT team last year for NCA I had less than two 8 counts total where my arms weren’t above my head in a stunt until I got to dance. It was by far the hardest routine I’ve ever been in stamina wise every stunt flew into the next I was never transitioning.

All of the vets on the team who were tumblers all agreed we’d gladly throw a corner pass if it meant we could get an 8 count in the corner to shake our arms out lol even ignoring the skills it got to the point where I couldn’t feel my hands.
 
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oncecoolcoachnowmom

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So in the fall out from the whole Rockstar situation, I believe all the gyms are re-branding and have ended their licensing agreement which leads to all kinds of new locations, gyms returning to their previous names, etc. I didn’t want to start this conversation in the actual RS allegations thread but looks like:

*RS Lake Norman is now an ATA location.

*RS ATL, Chambersburg (PA) Apex (NC), and and Elizabeth City (NC) have rebranded and formed a new mega gym franchise called Showtime Elite.
 

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So in the fall out from the whole Rockstar situation, I believe all the gyms are re-branding and have ended their licensing agreement which leads to all kinds of new locations, gyms returning to their previous names, etc. I didn’t want to start this conversation in the actual RS allegations thread but looks like:

*RS Lake Norman is now an ATA location.

*RS ATL, Chambersburg (PA) Apex (NC), and and Elizabeth City (NC) have rebranded and formed a new mega gym franchise called Showtime Elite.
Is Showtime Elite claiming to be a mega gym franchise? I only ask because they are not big gyms, and IMO the whole "need to be a mega gym" causes these types of issues in the first place. You would think gym owners would learn that being connected in name only means you have no control over your reputation when things go south. I don't understand the benefit of franchising.
 

oncecoolcoachnowmom

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Is Showtime Elite claiming to be a mega gym franchise? I only ask because they are not big gyms, and IMO the whole "need to be a mega gym" causes these types of issues in the first place. You would think gym owners would learn that being connected in name only means you have no control over your reputation when things go south. I don't understand the benefit of franchising.

I think its goal is to be a mega franchise similar to rockstar and such? I know I called it that but it’s not necessarily that quite yet but I can assume that’s what they want to be.
 
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Is Showtime Elite claiming to be a mega gym franchise? I only ask because they are not big gyms, and IMO the whole "need to be a mega gym" causes these types of issues in the first place. You would think gym owners would learn that being connected in name only means you have no control over your reputation when things go south. I don't understand the benefit of franchising.

Agreed. It has to be about money otherwise gyms wouldn’t bother with the headache of buying/associating with gyms in other states. Some parents and athletes, especially those new to the sport, must think if the gym is larger (“look we have 3000 athletes in 4 states!”) it somehow means the gym is better or more reputable. But if you’ve been in the sport long enough you know that every gym location is its own separate entity regardless of the name on the door or the marketing they share. Quality over quantity. If anything, the more a gym swells, the greater the risk for problems.
 
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