All-Star How Would You Change All Star Scoring?

[King]

Yes their dance score would be low regardless, but then it limits the 8 counts available to show off their strengths

Not really. Just make minimums that have to have skills.. not maximums.

 

[BlueCat]

I disagree because if you tell a judge that there is a penalty for a skill with reduced difficulty, they will be looking for the deduction rather than the execution and creativity. If I say to a judge in a particular standing tumbling section there will be 8 three to layouts, they will be looking for a quantity, rather than looking at the back handsprings, the body position of the actual layout, and the landing.

I was actually suggesting that a different person be responsible for counting skills and comparing that to the skills sheet. The "regular" judges would then not have to worry about counting skills at all. Perhaps this would only be realistic at the larger events.

 

[King]

What if all judges (safety and scoring) were 'hired' from the USASF? The EP's would be responsible for running the event and keeping things flowing while scoring and safety would all fall back on the USASF? EP's wouldn't need to worry about scores or safety to please their customers. It would be about service.

 

[yourFAVORITEcoach]

What if all judges (safety and scoring) were 'hired' from the USASF? The EP's would be responsible for running the event and keeping things flowing while scoring and safety would all fall back on the USASF? EP's wouldn't need to worry about scores or safety to please their customers. It would be about service.

I think this is the best thing I have heard all day!!!

 

[rvnblue]

I was actually suggesting that a different person be responsible for counting skills and comparing that to the skills sheet. The "regular" judges would then not have to worry about counting skills at all. Perhaps this would only be realistic at the larger events.

What would happen in the following situation:
Team A: three, two to doubles...one of the three throws a full instead of the double written on the skills sheet...deduction incurred
Team B: four, two to fulls...all throw the fulls...no deduction incurred

Question: would team A receive a deduction large enough to reduce their difficulty to the point where they would score lower than team B?

 

[WorkToWin]

What would happen in the following situation:
Team A: three, two to doubles...one of the three throws a full instead of the double written on the skills sheet...deduction incurred
Team B: four, two to fulls...all throw the fulls...no deduction incurred

Question: would team A receive a deduction large enough to reduce their difficulty to the point where they would score lower than team B?

i think the deduction would have to be worth the difficulty difference in a two to a full and a two to a double.

 

[rvnblue]

i think the deduction would have to be worth the difficulty difference in a two to a full and a two to a double.

correct but what about the number of skills?

 

[CGAcheer]

Not really. Just make minimums that have to have skills.. not maximums.

I know it wasnt specifically limiting a max number of 8counts, but given a finite number of 8counts available within the allotted time, having minimums limits the amount of 8 counts left in the routine to use for your strengths

 

[imrichhowboutu]

What would happen in the following situation:
Team A: three, two to doubles...one of the three throws a full instead of the double written on the skills sheet...deduction incurred
Team B: four, two to fulls...all throw the fulls...no deduction incurred

Question: would team A receive a deduction large enough to reduce their difficulty to the point where they would score lower than team B?

i think the deduction would have to be worth the difficulty difference in a two to a full and a two to a double.

correct but what about the number of skills?

You do realize that 3 standing passes to double or 4 standing passes to full don't really increase your difficulty that much. It's the same thing as if you had one girl throwing a standing full and she throws a tuck instead. For me judging on most score sheets, that few skills doesn't impact anything.

To get the difficulty points, you need a handful of your team to do it. 15% of the team doing a skill hardly increases the difficulty at all.

 

[Peter El]

How about having people that did coed stunting judge coed divisions and set up the scoring grid.

Looking at the scoring grid for some of the coed stunts is silly. The difference in level six between a toss extension with no spot at all (32-35 on the score sheet) and a rewind to cupie unassisted (max score is 35, so can't be that much more). Scoring is all compressed at the top, they need to drop the value of lower difficulty skills.

What's the score difference between a ...
-toss extension no spot
-rewind with a spot assisting the catch
-rewind to cupie with no assist from the spot
They all score in the 32-35 point range, and toss extension should be no where near the other two skills

See here, page 8
http://usasf.net.ismmedia.com/ISM2//Worlds Documents /Worlds_2011_Coed_L6_International_Division.pdf

Now looking at that same document, the Tosses section is more balanced, you can do simple level six tosses (back tuck tosses) and get 9-13 out of 20 (that's around 45%-65% score in the section). So a simple level six stunt (Toss extension with no spot) should score in the 45%-65% range as well (So 16-23 out of 35).

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

I'd really like to see...

1. Scores become public

2. Universal Scoresheets

3. USASF hired and trained judges judging events

...sometime in my coaching career. I think these are all such great ideas to further the integrity our sport.

 

[xpressjag]

I would like to see more weight put on the overall performance, I feel like too many scoresheets are like checklists and not enough emphasis is put on the overall show. Where is the eyeball test? Which of the routines was the one that without the scoresheet staring you in the face would you just by gut say, that was the best.

For level 5 specifically, there should be a minimum score to get a bid also... too many times I have watched at larges go to teams getting outscored by level 3 teams.

I was just going to type this out. I know the push for skills is huge in our industry but its still cheerleading. I see many teams hit the score sheet but their overall performance/energy is just Ok. I think teams that excite/entertain you should get scored appropriately.

 

[rvnblue]

You do realize that 3 standing passes to double or 4 standing passes to full don't really increase your difficulty that much. It's the same thing as if you had one girl throwing a standing full and she throws a tuck instead. For me judging on most score sheets, that few skills doesn't impact anything.

To get the difficulty points, you need a handful of your team to do it. 15% of the team doing a skill hardly increases the difficulty at all.

If at a smaller event I have ten teams competing in small senior 5, I highly doubt you will have ten standing to doubles.

 

[King]

When you look at other sports how is this type of thing handled? With judges and who they are hired from and what not?

 

[BlueCat]

i think the deduction would have to be worth the difficulty difference in a two to a full and a two to a double.

It would need to be bigger than the difficulty difference. We would want to discourage coaches "padding" their skills sheet and hoping the judges didn't notice. I don't think it should be a huge deduction by any means (not nearly the same as a fall), but it needs to be enough to make the coach motivated to be accurate.