All-Star Instead Of Reducing Tumbling How About Huge Tumble Bust Deductions

[imrichhowboutu]

Another point we need to discuss "what is perfectly executed tumbling?" Cheerleaders/Coaches think it is acceptable to have below average execution in tumbling skills when you compare it gymnasts. I've been watch videos lately and realized that not many people at all have average to above average execution. I would say the majority of cheerleaders have sub-par execution on all tumbling in level 5 (lower levels is a whole different conversation).

 

[Esquenazi<3]

The problem with judging tumbling from the point of execution, people will have tons of different opinions on good execution of a skill and I think it would cause a lot of conflict at competitions

 

[Philly Pherocious]

Maybe a group of leading tumbling coaches could sit together and figure out how most tumbling injuries occur, and how to teach the skill in a manner that keeps them from executing the skill in that dangerous way that causes the injuries.

 

[newcheerdad]

The idea Kingston proposed is excellent, if the cause of tumbling injuries is truly the execution of unsafe skills as opposed to the skills themselves being more than the body can handle. This came up in a conversation at our gym the other night, and the reality is that the vast majority of injuries coaches see are on skills that are already mastered. I know in my three years of being a "cheer dad", I've seen kids on my daughter's teams break their wrist doing a back walkover, injure their ankle doing a toe touch, and break an elbow doing a straight ride.

I tend to think that the reason for the injury rate in cheer is a combination of athletes not being conditioned to perform the skills they perform, coaching that needs to improve, and yes, perhaps a push to have kids perform skills they haven't mastered.

 

[5-6-7-8]

Lets bring in a gymnastics judge to do the tumbling execution scores. :)

While I would love to see the solution to be an increased hit in execution score for yucky tumbling, I realize we have enough issues with judging to expect this to go over well. Deductions are easier for judges because it is more objective (did a person touch down or not?).

But I keep getting back to the thought that by just implementing larger deductions, we aren't directly addressing the issue of yucky technique (yes, in theory, poor technique will lead to more busts, but not necessarily.)

 

[wcdad]

If it was up to me I would have Debbie Love incharge of training and certification of coaches and judges. If they follow her lead we would not be having this issue

 

[Mightymouse34]

I think you misunderstood my point on number 1. I definitely think it's fair to deduct for a fluke bust, but not 5 points. I can't imagine a touch down or bust costing more than a stunt fall. I think the bust and touch down deductions should stay the way they are, not eliminated. Yes flukes happen and they cost their team, I just can't see a team with a stunt fall beating a team that had a touch down in jumps to back or standing fulls. My entire point in point one is that making busts/touch downs cost more won't improve technique. There are a couple girls on my team that don't make their hips around, ever, but they land it every time. Should these higher deductions be put into place my coach will still have them throwing their doubles(1 and 3/4) in the routine.

Also, I am aware that was a fluke on Kiara's part. That was my point, that even the best of the best fluke out every once in a while. I'm sure she can land that pass "100/100 times in the gym." (Not quoting you, quoting others.)

I think the fact that injuries are coming from everywhere in the sport is proof enough that level 5 skills don't need to be taken away, technique throughout every level just needs to be improved.

Well then lets just agree to disagree then. Because i think a bust should be worth just as much as a stunt falling if not more. You have complete control of your tumbling, if u fall that's on you and no one else. And I believe if it is made that way you will definitely have coaches be more cautious about putting in skills. And I also think bad technique should be deducted just like in gymnastics, so those doubles that don't finish all the way around in a routine like the ones on you say are on your team they, get deducted. Not as much as fall our touch down but enough to make a non-properly executed skill not worth putting in the routine. I believe that's the only way your going to change the mentality of coaches when putting in tumbling skills. Its always going to be a reward vs risk game, the only way u can balance it is if you make the risk higher than the reward. If adding one more standing full isn't going to help you win the title but could cost you the title, id believe more coaches than not are gonna leave it out if that standing full is not executed properly and consistently.

 

[munchkinmom]

So you take Coach from Craptastic Allstars, who loses every season because she doesn't field teams in the right division... I think she's a big pusher for skills before perfection. What's stopping her from continuing? She clearly isn't interested in winning to start with.

This is a valid point that needs more consideration. Deductions aren't going to stop the Craptastic Allstars (Their owner must be the sister of Dolly Dinkle...) the businesses that survive on an ever-rotating stream of parents who are spending money to endulge their childrens' wishes. Coach & athlete certification will.

 

[Keep_Believing]

Well then lets just agree to disagree then. Because i think a bust should be worth just as much as a stunt falling if not more. You have complete control of your tumbling, if u fall that's on you and no one else. And I believe if it is made that way you will definitely have coaches be more cautious about putting in skills. And I also think bad technique should be deductd just like in gymnastics, so those doubles that don't finish all the way around in a routine like the ones on you say are on your team they, get deducted. Not as much as fall our touch down but enough to make a non-properly executed skill not worth putting in the routine. I believe that's the only way your going to change the mentality of coaches when putting in tumbling skills. Its always going to be a reward vs risk game, the only way u can balance it is if you make the risk higher than the reward. If adding one more standing full isn't going to help you win the title but could cost you the title, id believe more coaches than not are gonna leave it out if that standing full is not executed properly and consistently.

 

[Keep_Believing]

I agree with Kingstons post. In reference to this specific post please remember that stunt safety is also very important . Most serious injuries I have witnessed, seen, and heard of our from stunts falling or going badly. This includes concusions and even fatal injuries.

 

[Keep_Believing]

I agree with Kingstons post. In reference to this specific post please remember that stunt safety is also very important . Most serious injuries I have witnessed, seen, and heard of our from stunts falling or going badly. This includes concusions and even fatal injuries.

I was trying to respond to mightymouses post, but it didn't post the way I intended.

 

[mommak]

Just a thought on judging deductions when compared with gymnastics (or figure skating for that matter). A single gymnast is judged by at least 4 people typically, when performing on one apparatus. Cheerleading has a few more judges, but, in the case of Large divisions they are having to watch up to 36 athletes doing different things at the same time.

 

[5-6-7-8]

Just a thought on judging deductions when compared with gymnastics (or figure skating for that matter). A single gymnast is judged by at least 4 people typically, when performing on one apparatus. Cheerleading has a few more judges, but, in the case of Large divisions they are having to watch up to 36 athletes doing different things at the same time.

Good point. I know judges have to do it currently but would video review be practical here?

 

[mommak]

Good point. I know judges have to do it currently but would video review be practical here?

It would have to be. Otherwise, how can anyone possibly judge the execution of multiple skills (all over the mat) at once and give a fairly objective score?