All-Star International Unfairness

[idrive]

AMEN! And THAT is my issue with this, also, if 17 is the goal why not work your way up to it ex. next yr 15, then 16 THEN 17?[/quote

YES PLEASE!

I'd shimmy this whole thread if I could.

My daughter is about to get left out of Worlds again because of an age grid change!

 

[scottish_cheerleader]

This one rule may hurt teams, but other rules have hurt teams as well and they were still implemented. I am all for international teams competing, but make it fair across the board and that means removing the top 3 rule and add back some emphasis on tumbling.
.

im so with you i think for our sakes we should compete on an even playing field but we cannot compete with the age rules as we do not have enough athletes ages 17+near level 5 in scotland to field even a national team!! it would make us have to push ourselves further to become competitive

 

[kristenthegreat]

So it's not that they (international teams) couldn't be more/less competitive with these new age guidelines. It's that they wouldn't be able to compete PERIOD? WHY did they change the rule again?

 

[scottish_cheerleader]

So it's not that they (international teams) couldn't be more/less competitive with these new age guidelines. It's that they wouldn't be able to compete PERIOD? WHY did they change the rule again?

yeh see now your understanding my problem with this age rule! i have no idea! but it means my kids ( we have just moved from level 4 to 5 this year) will never get the chance to go to worlds because we dont have the athletes in the right age to compete in the division! at 17/18 kids are leaving school to go to university and alot give up allstar or move to lower level teams who maybe dont train as much (im not saying this is exclusive to us but we have maybe 2/3000 cheerleaders total in the uk, the majority 14 and under so the pool of people we have to put together teams restricts us alot more)

it will take us a few years to get really competitive but im so proud of level 5 cheer in the uk in the last few years, the twisting skills are coming from all team, stunts are pushing the boundaries and choreo is greatly improved... we are sooo getting there

 

[ztaprincess]

So it's not that they (international teams) couldn't be more/less competitive with these new age guidelines. It's that they wouldn't be able to compete PERIOD? WHY did they change the rule again?

I am hoping that when Les and the rules committee release the statement and decision that they will explain why the rule was changed and if is will remain. I really have a feeling that it is because the people on the board do not like the idea of a 14 year old on a team with athletes in their 20s, but I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[viralscorp]

If you don't like the International division as a US gym/coach/athlete - don't compete in it. Enter another division. But don't limit the opportunity for other countries to get involved in the sport and play the game.

(Having different rules for the US is not fair. Everyone in the same division should be playing by the same rules.)

 

[kristenthegreat]

Why not just say 'Ok, starting in 2013-2014 (because Int'l teams usually apply their bids to the following worlds since they get them on a diff schedule than we do), we will be moving the Int'l division age up to 15? Then in two years make it 17? Give people both in the US and abroad time to adjust and plan?

 

[ztaprincess]

If you don't like the International division as a US gym/coach/athlete - don't compete in it. Enter another division. But don't limit the opportunity for other countries to get involved in the sport and play the game.

(Having different rules for the US is not fair. Everyone in the same division should be playing by the same rules.)

As long as the USASF allows the US teams to enter the division it is going to happen because there is no other division to compete the athletes over 18. If the USASF would say no more US teams in these divisions and then add Open divisions just for US teams it would be better, but the way it is now all the recent rules for these divisions (minus the one being debated) has been in favor of non-US teams. They have limited US teams from playing the game by only allowing 3 to move on to finals when others deserve that 4th place trophy over a team that barely has squad tucks.

Why not just say 'Ok, starting in 2013-2014 (because Int'l teams usually apply their bids to the following worlds since they get them on a diff schedule than we do), we will be moving the Int'l division age up to 15? Then in two years make it 17? Give people both in the US and abroad time to adjust and plan?

I agree that it should have been like that, but clearly the board didn't think out their decisions very well. Maybe Les and the rules committee will make that change.

 

[scottish_cheerleader]

Why not just say 'Ok, starting in 2013-2014 (because Int'l teams usually apply their bids to the following worlds since they get them on a diff schedule than we do), we will be moving the Int'l division age up to 15? Then in two years make it 17? Give people both in the US and abroad time to adjust and plan?

i think thats a great idea! we do get our bids the season before so people that have won bids for 2013 worlds couldnt take their teams if the rules changed due to their athletes ages (even if we had enough people to sub into teams we would need to replace 2/3 of the members on the team hence breaking more rules)

but if it is done gradually the younger athletes we have , and the ones training to be future level 5's will age with the rules and we will be able to have a steady supply of athletes ready for worlds at the appropriate age :)

super idea!!!

 

[Aussiekat]

Y'know, not all of us were celebrating when Bangkok won just because they were an international team. Actually most of us thought it was bull s***.

ztaprincess I usually agree with a lot of what you say, but I honestly feel that on this issue you are taking a very handline stance on something you cannot possibly understand fully unless you spent a few seasons outside the US. I cordially invite you to spend your summer with me, which is our competitive season. Come experience Allstar cheer in Australia and then tell us how we can be better and raise our standards so US teams aren't disadvantaged by international division rules. International athletes are only playing by the rules we have been given, I have never called up the USASf and asked for a more lax division so I could win.

 

[worldsring09]

NEW: Competitor’s Age - “Year of the Competition” - ALL
International Open Divisions (Levels 5 & 6) will follow the ICU
World Cheerleading Championships age requirement (known as
the “International Standard”) for determining the required age of a
competitor. This standard is followed in most sports around the
globe. The age of a competitor will be determined based on the
date of birth falling during the “year of the competition.” Example:
A competitor who turns 14 up until December 31, 2012 will be
eligible to compete at the 2012 Worlds in an International Open
Level 5 Division

I think your interpretation is correct. But in the US the IO teams must follow USASF age guidelines at the bid event. So I think your scenario could only happen with teams from other countries.

I was curious so I took a peak at the UK cheer age groups and they don't have a minimum age for their senior age team http://ukca.org.uk/resources/pdfs/ukca-rules-2012-pdf.pdf

Tiny Teenies All competitors must be 7 years or under on the day of the competition
Teenies All competitors must be 9 years or under on the day of the competition
Junior A All competitors must be 12 years or under on the day of the competition
Junior B All competitors must be 16 years or under on the day of the competition
Senior One or more members of the team must be at least 16 years on the day of
the competition
University All competitors must be at least 18 year & older on the day of the competition
AND 75% of the team must be attending further education at the university they
are representing
Masters 75% of the team must be at least 25 years on the day of the competition

So If they want their senior team to go to Worlds they need to make sure that all of the athletes will be 14 by the calendar year of worlds.

 

[worldsring09]

So what if in the US, the athletes who are not old enough to be on the team at the nid comp are alternates or substitutions and are not on the mat to get the bid, but will still be 14 in 2012 (or the calendar year)?

There is a current year USA team with a 13 year old that they keep putting on the mat when they are trying for a bid...

 

[redsmom]

So what if in the US, the athletes who are not old enough to be on the team at the nid comp are alternates or substitutions and are not on the mat to get the bid, but will still be 14 in 2012 (or the calendar year)?

There is a current year USA team with a 13 year old that they keep putting on the mat when they are trying for a bid...

From USASF/IASF All-Star Cheer Divisions for 2011-2012:

The age of the competitor as of August 31, 2011 will be the age used for competition purposes throughout the 2011-2012 season for all divisions.​

So it would be illegal to have a 13 yr old on the mat for a US bid competition in IO5 or IOC5.

From page 5 of http://usasf.net.ismmedia.com/ISM2//Worlds/2012_Cheer_Worlds_Registration.pdf

All substitutes must meet the same eligibility requirements as the original team that was awarded a bid (i.e. age, etc.).​

​

So based on that, the 13 yr old should not be eligible as a sub on the US team.

RulesGuy ?

 

[ssccxnce]

wow some of these comments i cant even right now all i have to say is that NOBODY from other countries believe this ruling is fair, i dont think its fair but some of these comments are just arrogant

 

[worldsring09]

From USASF/IASF All-Star Cheer Divisions for 2011-2012:

The age of the competitor as of August 31, 2011 will be the age used for competition purposes throughout the 2011-2012 season for all divisions.​

So it would be illegal to have a 13 yr old on the mat for a US bid competition in IO5 or IOC5.

From page 5 of http://usasf.net.ismmedia.com/ISM2//Worlds/2012_Cheer_Worlds_Registration.pdf

All substitutes must meet the same eligibility requirements as the original team that was awarded a bid (i.e. age, etc.).​

​

So based on that, the 13 yr old should not be eligible as a sub on the US team.

RulesGuy ?

Can a moderator help me move this IOC5 question to a new thread in order to find an answer? Should I simply start a new thread myself? I want to know the answer to this (if they are cheating the rules in this scenario), the same gym owner put a 21 year old on the mat on a restricted 5 team this year at a very large national.