High School Male Flyers

[coacha]

*People are forgetting that cheer was started by guys*

Hey, I'm all for male cheerleaders. I coach a coed squad. If a male has the best jumps on my team, he gets point (keeping aesthetics and balancing the formation in mind). My guys don't dance because in general they aren't all talented enough to do it and it's an all or none thing (plus UCA scoresheet so it's not rewarded anyhow). They just don't fly for the reasons I posted up thread - which are based on 1) being able to attract/maintain guys in the program 2) the differences in a male body type and 3) choreography wishes that I don't want the attention on that 1 flyer.

If I coached a youth or mini all star team I probably wouldn't care as much. But I don't, I coach a high school UCA style team.

You also have to realize that this post is in the high school forum, not the all star forum, and there are big differences between the 2 worlds.

 

[dat.jpp]

When women were not allowed to go college and cheerleading was literally just that. Leading cheers.

Women brought the idea of cheer in the ways we see it now in the WW2 era when they started to take over the sport and interestingly enough started to stunt and tumble...

it was still started by guys

 

[cheerisloving]

stunting and tumbling in cheerleading didn't begin until the late 60's/early 70's

Yes, I should've been more clear. I was saying the pom poms and what not started in the post-war era when women started to take over the sport. Women were the majority in the sport by the time stunting and tumbling were implemented.

 

[cheerisloving]

it was still started by guys

But that has literally nothing to do with this. When cheerleading was started at the Princeton and the University of Minnesota, they weren't thinking 'wow one day I hope we can lift and toss people 20ft in the air, boys and girls.' We are talking about an era when college was not even a viable option for many women. Let alone cheerleading with men. So I don't think talking about gender discrimination and men being the ones who created cheerleading is a good argument.

 

[dat.jpp]

But that has literally nothing to do with this. When cheerleading was started at the Princeton and the University of Minnesota, they weren't thinking 'wow one day I hope we can lift and toss people 20ft in the air, boys and girls.' We are talking about an era when college was not even a viable option for many women. Let alone cheerleading with men. So I don't think talking about gender discrimination and men being the ones who created cheerleading is a good argument.

people weren't educated back then, but I guess there not that much to this day either.

 

[cheerisloving]

people weren't educated back then, but I guess there not that much to this day either.

You're literally simplifying centuries long differences between women and men as an issue with education......You're young so I'll let you off the hook but...

 

[SparkleSpankies]

Hey, I'm all for male cheerleaders. I coach a coed squad. If a male has the best jumps on my team, he gets point (keeping aesthetics and balancing the formation in mind). My guys don't dance because in general they aren't all talented enough to do it and it's an all or none thing (plus UCA scoresheet so it's not rewarded anyhow). They just don't fly for the reasons I posted up thread - which are based on 1) being able to attract/maintain guys in the program 2) the differences in a male body type and 3) choreography wishes that I don't want the attention on that 1 flyer.

If I coached a youth or mini all star team I probably wouldn't care as much. But I don't, I coach a high school UCA style team.

You also have to realize that this post is in the high school forum, not the all star forum, and there are big differences between the 2 worlds.

PREACH.

 

[Michael White]

The truth in the matter is, it is not likely one will listen to a stranger on the internet and change their mind on an ingrained preference. That same anonymity allows you to say things far more vehemently than you would in real life. We're all coaches, and we're all successful in our own right. Keep doing what you're doing, it clearly works, but at least try to see both sides of the issue (which we have done this conversation, I know it's been enlightening for me) and see why people on the opposite side from you might have a reason to have radically different opinions from yourself. Just in this conversation, I can definitely see the recruitment angle. I got involved in cheering late because as a masculine, heterosexual male, I did worry about how others would perceive me. I also see the world changing and becoming more accepting. So if a boy (gay or not) wants to fly, and has the talent, I think he should. If he "scares off" the boys who are interested in cheer, is that attitude what you want on your team, or do you want someone who is accepting to all members of a team?

P.s. thank you for the discussion all.

 

[123jump4!]

The truth in the matter is, it is not likely one will listen to a stranger on the internet and change their mind on an ingrained preference. That same anonymity allows you to say things far more vehemently than you would in real life. We're all coaches, and we're all successful in our own right. Keep doing what you're doing, it clearly works, but at least try to see both sides of the issue (which we have done this conversation, I know it's been enlightening for me) and see why people on the opposite side from you might have a reason to have radically different opinions from yourself. Just in this conversation, I can definitely see the recruitment angle. I got involved in cheering late because as a masculine, heterosexual male, I did worry about how others would perceive me. I also see the world changing and becoming more accepting. So if a boy (gay or not) wants to fly, and has the talent, I think he should. If he "scares off" the boys who are interested in cheer, is that attitude what you want on your team, or do you want someone who is accepting to all members of a team?

P.s. thank you for the discussion all.

So do you think it would have put you off if the team you were thinking of joining had a smaller boy as a flyer? Just curious.

I'm thinking most boys are still "big strong bases" so it shouldn't define the whole team if 1 or 2 are not. Boy flyers have got to be pretty rare even if coaches are accepting of it.

 

[tojofasho]

The truth in the matter is, it is not likely one will listen to a stranger on the internet and change their mind on an ingrained preference. That same anonymity allows you to say things far more vehemently than you would in real life. We're all coaches, and we're all successful in our own right. Keep doing what you're doing, it clearly works, but at least try to see both sides of the issue (which we have done this conversation, I know it's been enlightening for me) and see why people on the opposite side from you might have a reason to have radically different opinions from yourself. Just in this conversation, I can definitely see the recruitment angle. I got involved in cheering late because as a masculine, heterosexual male, I did worry about how others would perceive me. I also see the world changing and becoming more accepting. So if a boy (gay or not) wants to fly, and has the talent, I think he should. If he "scares off" the boys who are interested in cheer, is that attitude what you want on your team, or do you want someone who is accepting to all members of a team?

P.s. thank you for the discussion all.

 

[Michael White]

So do you think it would have put you off if the team you were thinking of joining had a smaller boy as a flyer? Just curious.

I'm thinking most boys are still "big strong bases" so it shouldn't define the whole team if 1 or 2 are not. Boy flyers still have got to be pretty rare even if coaches are accepting of it.

To be honest, what got me to join was seeing the skills the college team had over my very small highschool with a back handspring and struggle preps. I never would have joined my high school team, but I did in college. In small part because I was older, and more mature, and a much larger part in seeing the more advanced skillset.

 

[Michael White]

So do you think it would have put you off if the team you were thinking of joining had a smaller boy as a flyer? Just curious.

I'm thinking most boys are still "big strong bases" so it shouldn't define the whole team if 1 or 2 are not. Boy flyers have got to be pretty rare even if coaches are accepting of it.

I cheered with a guy who was 20 years old and was 5' 4" 120 pounds. He flew.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

The truth in the matter is, it is not likely one will listen to a stranger on the internet and change their mind on an ingrained preference. That same anonymity allows you to say things far more vehemently than you would in real life. We're all coaches, and we're all successful in our own right. Keep doing what you're doing, it clearly works, but at least try to see both sides of the issue (which we have done this conversation, I know it's been enlightening for me) and see why people on the opposite side from you might have a reason to have radically different opinions from yourself. Just in this conversation, I can definitely see the recruitment angle. I got involved in cheering late because as a masculine, heterosexual male, I did worry about how others would perceive me. I also see the world changing and becoming more accepting. So if a boy (gay or not) wants to fly, and has the talent, I think he should. If he "scares off" the boys who are interested in cheer, is that attitude what you want on your team, or do you want someone who is accepting to all members of a team?

P.s. thank you for the discussion all.

I'll drink to that...

As to your last sentence, I may be in a rare circumstance, but I have multiple feeder schools who all hate each other with a passion. I don't get a lot of "open to all members of the team" even when we are talking about girls who have cheered for years. So, that level of team building has to occur from within the program.

 

[Michael White]

I'll drink to that...

As to your last sentence, I may be in a rare circumstance, but I have multiple feeder schools who all hate each other with a passion. I don't get a lot of "open to all members of the team" even when we are talking about girls who have cheered for years. So, that level of team building has to occur from within the program.

This same behavior occured where I used to coach all star cheer. I reached out to another program's coaches and made it a point to write on their wall and wish them good luck, and congratulate them on wins,, as well as doing it in person. The programs are much friendlier now, they used to hate each other. I like to think I had a small part in changing that.

 

[Nikki Moore]

Hypothetically, if a girl cheerleader decided she did not want to wear the normal girl uniform and opted for the male version, would it still seem as odd if she was a flyer?