All-Star "name" Of Gym Affecting Placement?

[AndrewSky]

I think it has to do with the number of teams. Some companies do tend to prefer certain gyms. Trust me - it's annoying...

 

[KB_Legend]

Why is it unacceptable for an EP to say everyone has the same opportunities if they ask for them? A few weeks ago at BUTBT and last year at CHEERsport nationals I had to make adjustments in the warm up room, and both times I asked for, and received extra time on a mat system to work on the routine. I don't think certain gyms get special perks, I think certain gyms have coaches that are more willing to ask for the things they need.

 

[cheerymom]

The flip side of the "big gym preferential treatment" argument is that the level of expectation for a big gym can be higher. We are from a big gym and have heard comments like "It was good but we expected more from ------". And one year at Cheersport the comment was that our teams cheered like they were bored with winning. Who does that?

 

[lakerfantlc]

The flip side of the "big gym preferential treatment" argument is that the level of expectation for a big gym can be higher. We are from a big gym and have heard comments like "It was good but we expected more from ------". And one year at Cheersport the comment was that our teams cheered like they were bored with winning. Who does that?

who says that???? crazy !!!

 

[WorldClassFame]

I absolutely think this happens whether people will admit it or not. It happened at worlds in small coed division. I truly believe a name helped those placements. I do love and fully respect the teams who placed but that situation was more than just a stunt bobble. Just saying. But I can also say that it has helped us all in some way as well. Most gyms that have a name have all benefited from it at one time or another. Push and pull i guess :)

 

[tumbleyoda]

Why is it unacceptable for an EP to say everyone has the same opportunities if they ask for them? A few weeks ago at BUTBT and last year at CHEERsport nationals I had to make adjustments in the warm up room, and both times I asked for, and received extra time on a mat system to work on the routine. I don't think certain gyms get special perks, I think certain gyms have coaches that are more willing to ask for the things they need.

Agree; and are more likely to get what they want from some EP's (not all) because of who they are. Personally I don't necessarily think that is favoritism as opposed to business, but if you are on the other end of it, at times it may feel like it is favoritism.

If an EP says everyone has the same opportunities if they ask before hand there is nothing wrong with that. It is only when an EP is asked after it is done for one program/team and they use that as their reasoning. In the situation you describe I think we all have had those type of things happen and an adjustment was made.

 

[Deleted member 11199]

I do believe so.... Partially from personal experience... Let's just say "team A" had no were near the difficulty as "team b" did and team A dropped a stunt or two and had touch downs and still beat team b even though they hit -.- it's rather infuriating to say the least

 

[cupieqt]

This thread reminds me of the year that Michelle Kwan lost to Tara Lipinski in the Olympics. Michelle was the heavy favorite to win. But Tara was a little firecracker that landed ONE skill that was more difficult than Michelle's.
They were both flawless routines--Tara was awesome and skated like a beast...but Michelle was breathtaking. She was liquid on ice. MY opinion (and I truly believe the majority of the worlds opinion) was that Michelle was really robbed. She skated with her soul and Tara skated with her muscles. If theres a video somewhere, watch it and you'll know exactly what I mean.

That is the one and only year I cared about figure skating and I learned a big lesson from those two girls and that competition: yes, you have to have the whole package but all it takes is just ONE thing that's better than your competitor and you're gonna walk away with the gold. And it wasn't Michelle's name.

 

[BlueCat]

i still think that the bulk of this comes from people disagreeing with/not understanding results. Fans/coaches/atheltes don't see how it is possible that team A beat team B, so they fill in the blank with your own reason. ("Event Producer changed rankings so that the team with the better name would win." "Event Producer thinks if Team A wins, they will make more money"). If anyone outside of the judges were allowed to see the ACTUAL reasons teams won or lost, perhaps there would be less of these type of assumptions being made.

 

[cheererinIL]

cupieqt .. I cried and said awful, terrible things to the tv when that happened. I was like 8..

 

[cheerfan27]

i still think that the bulk of this comes from people disagreeing with/not understanding results. Fans/coaches/atheltes don't see how it is possible that team A beat team B, so they fill in the blank with your own reason. ("Event Producer changed rankings so that the team with the better name would win." "Event Producer thinks if Team A wins, they will make more money"). If anyone outside of the judges were allowed to see the ACTUAL reasons teams won or lost, perhaps there would be less of these type of assumptions being made.

People still don't understand even when they see the scores afterwards.

 

[christina3655]

i think this happens ALL THE TIME but i dont think it has anything to do with the gyms...its the subjectiveness of the judging system...i think that because in this sport they use coaches from other gyms to be judges theyre guna have their favorites...coaches and gym owners do network and if ur judging at a comp that one of ur good friends gym is at...u know theyre gunna see YOUR score sheet for their teams so that leave room to be biased..

i think they need to bring in judges who have nothing to do with cheerleading have never wanted to cheer or own a gym ...and train them specifically on the judging system.... like people who have no knowledge of the cheer world....have no knowledge that gym A is better known than Gym B...... Just like they do jurror selection ...they pick people who have no knowledge of the case or people invovled so that their decision isnt biased.... i think we just need a better scoring system period... :/

 

[cheerfan27]

I absolutely think this happens whether people will admit it or not. It happened at worlds in small coed division. I truly believe a name helped those placements. I do love and fully respect the teams who placed but that situation was more than just a stunt bobble. Just saying. But I can also say that it has helped us all in some way as well. Most gyms that have a name have all benefited from it at one time or another. Push and pull i guess :)

Did you look at the score sheets afterwards? If so, where did they beat you?

 

[cupieqt]

cupieqt .. I cried and said awful, terrible things to the tv when that happened. I was like 8..

Me too. And I wasn't 8 so I prob should've known better ; )

 

[KB_Legend]

How could people not involved in the sport ever be good judges? And if you don't want to be involved in cheerleading, why would you want to travel away from your family for 3-4 days, potentially take a day off work, and watch cheerleading for 20 hours, all for a couple hundred bucks?

I think the best judges are the ones that are in the gym all the time and thoroughly understand the technical intricacies of the skills. The ones that understand, from real life experience, what skills are harder and why, and how they should look.

There are so many people saying they "KNOW" this happens, does anyone have ANY actual examples to share? Some scoresheet numbers we can talk about, or some videos to watch? I'm not saying EP's, judges, or scoring systems are perfect, because they're not, but I am saying if you have some unbiased eyes looking at the situation I am VERY sure at least 9 times out of 10 we could find the reason for the placements logically and without using the excuse of foul play, or an unfair advantage. When people say things like that it is so inflammatory! There isn't any evidence to back it up, it's only opinion. Even the accusation of cheating or unfair scoring is then drawing the personal integrity of the judges on the stand into question, as well as the representatives from the EP. These claims are the last thing a young sport working hard for respect need to be putting out for people to read! Not to mention the fact that you are saying a group of athletes and coaches who undoubtably worked very hard for their success didn't deserve what they earned, which is rude and selfish. If you don't understand results it's VERY easy to make excuses and say why you got cheated or what was unfair, but IMO that's unfair to your opponents, it's unfair to the system, and quite frankly it's lazy. Focus that energy on UNDERSTANDING the scores and why you received them, what areas you were likely beat on. Focus on getting EP's to release scores so we can actually see where we got beat or where we out scored our opponents.