All-Star Nca Bid Issues

[cheercurl]

we scored high enough, and NCA has faith in us to represent them at worlds in a good fashion. thats why we got our bid... ?

Good theory...

 

[ACEDAD]

I believe they were qualified from last year to give 8, they had just been choosing to only give 7 of their allotted bids. I think you can give MORE bids than advertised (up to the max you are qualified for), but you may not give less. (This is similar to the ACA situation.)

Regarding the strategy of advertising 7, then giving more - you would have to ask NCA.

Okay, so let me change this a bit because I still think it's a big deal.

You're saying that if you qualify for 8, you can give less than that? The only criteria being how many you advertise?

Because I want to go back to the issue with WCA several years ago and USASF forced them (rightfully I believe) to award two paid bids. I understood it to be because they were contractually obligated to award them as a USASF member. But you're telling me that it's just because they advertised two?

Gotta say I'm not a fan.

 

[BlueCat]

Okay, so let me change this a bit because I still think it's a big deal.

You're saying that if you qualify for 8, you can give less than that? The only criteria being how many you advertise?

Because I want to go back to the issue with WCA several years ago and USASF forced them (rightfully I believe) to award two paid bids. I understood it to be because they were contractually obligated to award them as a USASF member. But you're telling me that it's just because they advertised two?

Gotta say I'm not a fan.

I don't know the details of the WCA situation. I also don't know if the rules have been changed since that time.

My assumption is that EPs are forced to declare early in the season, well before they know how large the current year's event will be. They may choose to shoot this number low, in case their event is not as large as the prior year. If the event exceeds a certain number of teams, then perhaps they decide that more bids are warranted.

Under normal circumstances, I would think you would get the most return on investment for the cost of a bid by advertising it ahead of time. You would have to ask NCA or ACA to know for sure why they did not do this.

 

[yojaehs]

I think there is a big difference between awarding MORE bids and awarding FEWER bids, JMO. I will agree that there should be some clarity.

 

[ACEDAD]

I don't know the details of the WCA situation. I also don't know if the rules have been changed since that time.

My assumption is that EPs are forced to declare early in the season, well before they know how large the current year's event will be. They may choose to shoot this number low, in case their event is not as large as the prior year. If the event exceeds a certain number of teams, then perhaps they decide that more bids are warranted.

Under normal circumstances, I would think you would get the most return on investment for the cost of a bid by advertising it ahead of time. You would have to ask NCA or ACA to know for sure why they did not do this.

Here are the santioning rules.

http://usasf.net.ismmedia.com/ISM2//Member%20Documents%20/Event_Producer_Memberships_12-13.pdf

A couple of things:

1. The bids allowed are based on the prior year, not current year. But I guess your comment is that if an EP is going to award 7 bids and they only have 100 total teams show up, they might not be happy about it??
2. I guess "can" and "may" are flexible and I realize that, so I guess it's based on the advertising.


I still don't like allowing EP's to advertise low and just pull extra bids out of their pocket if they want to. Just rubs me the wrong way.

 

[ASCheerMan]

The number of bids you give out is based on prior year enrollment. Based on the 650ish cheer teams we had last season, we were safe to award 7 Bids in 2012.
That being said, an Event Producer can get approval to pass out additional bids provided a) the current year's registration justifies it and b) the additional bids aren't being used as a marketing advantage or as a recruitment tool.

There have been 3 to 4 instances where an Event Producer--for one reason or another---felt like they needed additional Paid bids and got permission in the 11th hour. (Attention Conspiracy Theorists: The 3 to 4 previous cases where an Event Producer was granted additional bids last minute were all NON-Varsity brand situations. No special treatment was given here).
We requested the additional bids because we felt as though we had released the new "Weighing Policy" for International divisions without thinking through the consequences and how it would affect bids. There were multiple programs confused, mainly the Level 6 teams. I initially requested just the 3 At-Large bids so I could take care of everyone in Level 6. But, as I discovered, At-Large bids are tied to the Paid bids. So, if I wanted 3 At-Large bids to remedy an issue that NCA should ultimately take the blame for, I had to request an additional PAID bid, with the 3 At-Large being granted as a package deal.

So, we gave out an additional paid bid and I threw all 3 additional At-Large bids into the Level 6 divisions, making sure every team from Level 6 would leave the DCC with a bid to Worlds.

 

[BowsnBling]

The number of bids you give out is based on prior year enrollment. Based on the 650ish cheer teams we had last season, we were safe to award 7 Bids in 2012.
That being said, an Event Producer can get approval to pass out additional bids provided a) the current year's registration justifies it and b) the additional bids aren't being used as a marketing advantage or as a recruitment tool.

There have been 3 to 4 instances where an Event Producer--for one reason or another---felt like they needed additional Paid bids and got permission in the 11th hour. (Attention Conspiracy Theorists: The 3 to 4 previous cases where an Event Producer was granted additional bids last minute were all NON-Varsity brand situations. No special treatment was given here).
We requested the additional bids because we felt as though we had released the new "Weighing Policy" for International divisions without thinking through the consequences and how it would affect bids. There were multiple programs confused, mainly the Level 6 teams. I initially requested just the 3 At-Large bids so I could take care of everyone in Level 6. But, as I discovered, At-Large bids are tied to the Paid bids. So, if I wanted 3 At-Large bids to remedy an issue that NCA should ultimately take the blame for, I had to request an additional PAID bid, with the 3 At-Large being granted as a package deal.

So, we gave out an additional paid bid and I threw all 3 additional At-Large bids into the Level 6 divisions, making sure every team from Level 6 would leave the DCC with a bid to Worlds.

Hey Justin,

Thanks for coming on here and explaining but why were you or nca so interested in making sure every team from level 6 would get a bid? I don't pay as much mind to level 6 so the statement intrigued me. Thanks!

 

[ACEDAD]

The number of bids you give out is based on prior year enrollment. Based on the 650ish cheer teams we had last season, we were safe to award 7 Bids in 2012.
That being said, an Event Producer can get approval to pass out additional bids provided a) the current year's registration justifies it and b) the additional bids aren't being used as a marketing advantage or as a recruitment tool.

There have been 3 to 4 instances where an Event Producer--for one reason or another---felt like they needed additional Paid bids and got permission in the 11th hour. (Attention Conspiracy Theorists: The 3 to 4 previous cases where an Event Producer was granted additional bids last minute were all NON-Varsity brand situations. No special treatment was given here).
We requested the additional bids because we felt as though we had released the new "Weighing Policy" for International divisions without thinking through the consequences and how it would affect bids. There were multiple programs confused, mainly the Level 6 teams. I initially requested just the 3 At-Large bids so I could take care of everyone in Level 6. But, as I discovered, At-Large bids are tied to the Paid bids. So, if I wanted 3 At-Large bids to remedy an issue that NCA should ultimately take the blame for, I had to request an additional PAID bid, with the 3 At-Large being granted as a package deal.

So, we gave out an additional paid bid and I threw all 3 additional At-Large bids into the Level 6 divisions, making sure every team from Level 6 would leave the DCC with a bid to Worlds.

Thanks Justin.

Next year, you'll have the 8/24 upfront!!

 

[Mom Jeans]

The number of bids you give out is based on prior year enrollment. Based on the 650ish cheer teams we had last season, we were safe to award 7 Bids in 2012.
That being said, an Event Producer can get approval to pass out additional bids provided a) the current year's registration justifies it and b) the additional bids aren't being used as a marketing advantage or as a recruitment tool.

There have been 3 to 4 instances where an Event Producer--for one reason or another---felt like they needed additional Paid bids and got permission in the 11th hour. (Attention Conspiracy Theorists: The 3 to 4 previous cases where an Event Producer was granted additional bids last minute were all NON-Varsity brand situations. No special treatment was given here).
We requested the additional bids because we felt as though we had released the new "Weighing Policy" for International divisions without thinking through the consequences and how it would affect bids. There were multiple programs confused, mainly the Level 6 teams. I initially requested just the 3 At-Large bids so I could take care of everyone in Level 6. But, as I discovered, At-Large bids are tied to the Paid bids. So, if I wanted 3 At-Large bids to remedy an issue that NCA should ultimately take the blame for, I had to request an additional PAID bid, with the 3 At-Large being granted as a package deal.

So, we gave out an additional paid bid and I threw all 3 additional At-Large bids into the Level 6 divisions, making sure every team from Level 6 would leave the DCC with a bid to Worlds.

I dont get this, you wanted to make sure every level 6 got a bid? Why? I'm Im just trying to understand, why the amount you had wasnt enough. The bids must've gone pretty far down in level 5 in regards to standings. So will you always "take care" of level 6 teams?

 

[ASCheerMan]

I dont get this, you wanted to make sure every level 6 got a bid? Why? I'm Im just trying to understand, why the amount you had wasnt enough. The bids must've gone pretty far down in level 5 in regards to standings. So will you always "take care" of level 6 teams?

We declared that both Level 6 National Champions would be guaranteed an At-Large bid from NCA. Then, we declared that the bid selection for Level 6 wouldn't go by the International Scoresheet weights, but that we would apply the standard Weights when it came time to consider bids. As it turns out, the National Champion and the Highest Scoring Team based on Standard weight were two DIFFERENT teams, a scenario I hadn't considered. Considering how confused the teams were (and by Sunday night, how confused I was), the fairest solution was to award more bids in Level 6, so that my mistakes wouldn't hold back any team who had met the criteria we published for receiving a bid. That was what I meant by "take care" of Level 6. The only way to do that was to either a) take a bid opportunity away from a Level 5 team or b) ask for more bids. It was just as unfair to take an at-large bid from a Level 5 team after I promised a certain amount of At-Large bids in those divisions.

 

[BlueCat]

We declared that both Level 6 National Champions would be guaranteed an At-Large bid from NCA. Then, we declared that the bid selection for Level 6 wouldn't go by the International Scoresheet weights, but that we would apply the standard Weights when it came time to consider bids. As it turns out, the National Champion and the Highest Scoring Team based on Standard weight were two DIFFERENT teams, a scenario I hadn't considered. Considering how confused the teams were (and by Sunday night, how confused I was), the fairest solution was to award more bids in Level 6, so that my mistakes wouldn't hold back any team who had met the criteria we published for receiving a bid. That was what I meant by "take care" of Level 6. The only way to do that was to either a) take a bid opportunity away from a Level 5 team or b) ask for more bids. It was just as unfair to take an at-large bid from a Level 5 team after I promised a certain amount of At-Large bids in those divisions.

I again applaud NCA/Justin for being open about the whole bid/scoring process. That makes perfect sense. We had definitely read the bid declaration incorrectly. Most EPs wouldn't bother letting people know why that decision was made, and there would be crazy conspiracy theories floating around about why this happened.

 

[proudcheermomma]

NCA is the best competition, even with the bid issues...just sayin';)

 

[Mom Jeans]

We declared that both Level 6 National Champions would be guaranteed an At-Large bid from NCA. Then, we declared that the bid selection for Level 6 wouldn't go by the International Scoresheet weights, but that we would apply the standard Weights when it came time to consider bids. As it turns out, the National Champion and the Highest Scoring Team based on Standard weight were two DIFFERENT teams, a scenario I hadn't considered. Considering how confused the teams were (and by Sunday night, how confused I was), the fairest solution was to award more bids in Level 6, so that my mistakes wouldn't hold back any team who had met the criteria we published for receiving a bid. That was what I meant by "take care" of Level 6. The only way to do that was to either a) take a bid opportunity away from a Level 5 team or b) ask for more bids. It was just as unfair to take an at-large bid from a Level 5 team after I promised a certain amount of At-Large bids in those divisions.

That makes sense, but that is one of things I dont like that EP's do is promise a certain amount of bid to level 5. More and more it appears other levels get taken care of and Int 5 never gets taken care of. When you give a bid to someone in 27th place, would it really have mattered? I know it would to that team, but giving so many bids has now started another issue teams having to compete on Friday @ Worlds. I dont feel a team in 27th should be in the same bracket and a team that comes in the top 3 and gets an at large bid.

I feel that if anyone who wasnt in the top 3 when they received their at large should perform on Friday anyone who was in the top 3, in any division should make it to Sat. then you can give 50th place a bid and no one would care.

I know thats for another topic. but it all runs together.

 

[ztaprincess]

I saw on twitter the Twist & Shout's All girl level 6 team had the overall highest score of the competition, makes me sad that they don't give paid bids to level 6 teams (at NCA and most other competitions).

 

[Mom Jeans]

Now,THAT would've been taking care of the level 6 teams=)