All-Star New Rules Released Today?

[12stepCheermom]

He's not a representative, he's just an athlete at a large gym who posts on here. I am not a representative of Computer Screen Allstars (even though that's where I currently am cheering.. ;) )

Well, I'm an official public relations representative of iPad Elite. That's because I'm swagtastic!

 

[GreatWhite92]

Well, I'm an official public relations representative of iPad Elite. That's because I'm swagtastic!

Aw you must be our sister gym, iMac cheer

 

[12stepCheermom]

Aw you must be our sister gym, iMac cheer

Bahaha!

 

[Deleted member 1556]

Well, I'm an official public relations representative of iPad Elite. That's because I'm swagtastic!

PC Allstars ( I represent them) are your rivals. But I'm back so step aside!

 

[12stepCheermom]

PC Allstars ( I represent them) are your rivals. But I'm back so step aside!

Yeah, we heard you had some virus infected pyros PC....we're ready for you! :D

 

[Deleted member 1556]

Yeah, we heard you had some virus infected pyros PC....we're ready for you! :D

We play dirty, what can I say?

 

[cndesaus]

(I'm just ranting) I'm not a fan of the new age rules. It's going to stink for all small gyms who get a wide range of ages. I mean not everyone can crossover and make another team for the younger kids. And Yes I do understand that everyone hates seeing younger kids on older teams.

As I sit here watching the lottery for Worlds and thinking about how they have eliminated Mini 3; why haven't they eliminated Large Senior 5? Not that many teams compete in that division either... just some food for thought. Not trying to start any shade or drama.

 

[canz]

Yay for in a few years when the only international athletes allowed to compete at worlds will be 17 i.e. open teams..I see how well this develops cheerleading internationally...NOT.

Yup where is one to find 24 17plus year olds with a spare $5k to travel to the States hmmm

 

[AndyT_T]

I agree... but I would like to see statistics on people getting hurt on these skills. These are ELITE skills that as you said, .01% if I can quote you do. I have coached MANY one to doubles and a handful of standing doubles, full punch and double punch doubles. Out of all of those I have coached (looking at those skill sets only) I have not had anyone injured. I need to see statistics that this is what people are getting hurt on. If not, I feel it is irrelevant the % of people that have the skills.

Just because only a small % of people are affected by it, doesn't mean their voices aren't important.

I am willing to bet a large portion of my student loans that the largest percent of cheer injuries come from learning: Back Handsprings, Tucks, & Single Fulls.

In my limited coaching experience those tend to be the most dangerous, for obvious reasons (First tumbling move, first free flipping inversion, first twisting skill). Those are the skills where you hafta learn aerial awareness (or a new type of aerial awareness).

So instead of focusing on the absolute minority in cheer (By the time you're double safely, you generally have a pretty good of where you are in the air and how to fall out of tumbling properly) why dont they focus on the lack of certification and training of coaches?? Im willing to bet the vast majority of overall cheer injuries come from bhs' and tucks (skills EVERY coach will be exposed to). I feel like they should stress proper technique on tucks rather than the existance of standing doubles.

If you're working standing doubles, chances are that you're at a good, fairly experienced level 5 program and have be doing both doubles and standing fulls for an extended period of time.

What they're doing just makes no sense to me at all.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I am willing to bet a large portion of my student loans that the largest percent of cheer injuries come from learning: Back Handsprings, Tucks, & Single Fulls.

In my limited coaching experience those tend to be the most dangerous, for obvious reasons (First tumbling move, first free flipping inversion, first twisting skill). Those are the skills where you hafta learn aerial awareness (or a new type of aerial awareness).

So instead of focusing on the absolute minority in cheer (By the time you're double safely, you generally have a pretty good of where you are in the air and how to fall out of tumbling properly) why dont they focus on the lack of certification and training of coaches?? Im willing to bet the vast majority of overall cheer injuries come from bhs' and tucks (skills EVERY coach will be exposed to). I feel like they should stress proper technique on tucks rather than the existance of standing doubles.

If you're working standing doubles, chances are that you're at a good, fairly experienced level 5 program and have be doing both doubles and standing fulls for an extended period of time.

What they're doing just makes no sense to me at all.

You would be correct in the opinion of many of the tumbling coaches on these boards. I agree with you. However lets look at this another way:

The skills you mention are necessary currently by USASF/Varsity so they will not do anything to limit them. If you get rid of the the "wow" skills in tumbling sure USASF/Varsity may argue injury reduction but I doubt it is the main motivation. It is a side benefit to whatever the main motivator truly is. These are the skills that were typically done by the male tumbling specialists who often are not the best body types for the stunting that USASF/Varsity wants to see on the floor. You have to have been reading Varsity's pages for years on How to get Boys into Cheer to understand where I am coming from. They have never advocated for the flashy tumbling. Stunting has always been the main thing to do and to get boys for.

Lately more females have been doing these skills as well which now has USASF/Varsity concerned that there is just too much daggone emphasis on tumbling and not enough on stunting. Again IMO injuries is the red herring they are using to push whatever their real agenda may be. Still haven't seen those statistics that prove that this was needed. They have been slowly but surely pushing the rules towards limiting tumbling. This was just the latest push IMO. Especially since most of these tumbling passes you can not use in college. If you get rid of those skills, you now reduce the both scoresheet and perceptive need to put that street tumbler, parkour specialist, or even ex gymnast who can't stunt at all on your team. You no longer need his flash to compete against another team because they don't need it either. Currently it is a choice in how you choose to hit the scoresheet. Since we as an industry have not made the choice to limit tumbling (even the small gym coaches argument is a red herring) they will make us limit it.

This is JMO but I have always felt that USASF/Varsity's goal was to basically be all things cheer from Tinys to College. Uniforms, rules, competitions, everything. You have to go by or thru them in order to compete. Period. One way or the other. If that is the case, then you can't have All Stars competing harder skills than they can in college. Currently stunting follows these progressions so college is seen as the epitome of stunting. Not so with tumbling. There is a major let down to tumblers coming out of all stars that can't do the crazy tumbling they learned while competing in college. We always hear about the athletes who say they don't need to even learn a double full because they can't use it in college. They are not going to add to the skills you can do in college, so the next logical move is to take away skills you can do in all star.

Now I could be 100 percent wrong. But I read a lot, and listen a whole lot more. So far, I have been pretty close to the mark on lot of things. Even when first denied by those in the know.:)

 

[AndyT_T]

You would be correct in the opinion of many of the tumbling coaches on these boards. I agree with you. However lets look at this another way:

The skills you mention are necessary currently by USASF/Varsity so they will not do anything to limit them. If you get rid of the the "wow" skills in tumbling sure USASF/Varsity may argue injury reduction but I doubt it is the main motivation. It is a side benefit to whatever the main motivator truly is. These are the skills that were typically done by the male tumbling specialists who often are not the best body types for the stunting that USASF/Varsity wants to see on the floor. You have to have been reading Varsity's pages for years on How to get Boys into Cheer to understand where I am coming from. They have never advocated for the flashy tumbling. Stunting has always been the main thing to do and to get boys for.

Lately more females have been doing these skills as well which now has USASF/Varsity concerned that there is just too much daggone emphasis on tumbling and not enough on stunting. Again IMO injuries is the red herring they are using to push whatever their real agenda may be. Still haven't seen those statistics that prove that this was needed. They have been slowly but surely pushing the rules towards limiting tumbling. This was just the latest push IMO. Especially since most of these tumbling passes you can not use in college. If you get rid of those skills, you now reduce the both scoresheet and perceptive need to put that street tumbler, parkour specialist, or even ex gymnast who can't stunt at all on your team. You no longer need his flash to compete against another team because they don't need it either. Currently it is a choice in how you choose to hit the scoresheet. Since we as an industry have not made the choice to limit tumbling (even the small gym coaches argument is a red herring) they will make us limit it.

This is JMO but I have always felt that USASF/Varsity's goal was to basically be all things cheer from Tinys to College. Uniforms, rules, competitions, everything. You have to go by or thru them in order to compete. Period. One way or the other. If that is the case, then you can't have All Stars competing harder skills than they can in college. Currently stunting follows these progressions so college is seen as the epitome of stunting. Not so with tumbling. There is a major let down to tumblers coming out of all stars that can't do the crazy tumbling they learned while competing in college. We always hear about the athletes who say they don't need to even learn a double full because they can't use it in college. They are not going to add to the skills you can do in college, so the next logical move is to take away skills you can do in all star.

Now I could be 100 percent wrong. But I read a lot, and listen a whole lot more. So far, I have been pretty close to the mark on lot of things. Even when first denied by those in the know.:)

I see where your comming from, but if stunting is their main concern why havent they continued to advance the difficulty of cheer stunting to put it on par with... well... the rest of the world? Everywhere else does 2-2-1's and inversions, but we dont have that ability here. If stunts are the desired "wow" factor then why havent they legalised the wow worthy stunts?

 

[idrive]

(I'm just ranting) I'm not a fan of the new age rules. It's going to stink for all small gyms who get a wide range of ages. I mean not everyone can crossover and make another team for the younger kids. And Yes I do understand that everyone hates seeing younger kids on older teams.

As I sit here watching the lottery for Worlds and thinking about how they have eliminated Mini 3; why haven't they eliminated Large Senior 5? Not that many teams compete in that division either... just some food for thought. Not trying to start any shade or drama.

It won't just hurt the small gyms. The gyms with 250 or under I feel will get hurt as well. As for the drama..... that started a few weeks ago.

 

[gofriars610]

var$ity can't make money with tumbling. it can with stunting (camps, etc).

 

[cndesaus]

It won't just hurt the small gyms. The gyms with 250 or under I feel will get hurt as well. As for the drama..... that started a few weeks ago.

I work in a small gym so the age range if very wide. So its like what eh heck do i do? And what happens if everyone can't afford the crossover fees.... ugh!!!!!

 

[creator13]

Anyone know when the final set of rules, for 2012-2013 season, will be available?