All-Star Next Year At World Bid Events....

[tumbleyoda]

Many teams go as cdrcoach said for the experience. The first year I went it was on an at large bid. We were not bid chasing. We ended up getting an at large bid at a competition (CanAm) we had went to in previous years, just didnt have a level 5 team. After we got back from the competition and meeting with staff and parents we made the decision to accept the bid and go. We decided to go for the experience and to show the kids in the program at the time what the future look of the program needed to be. It was also a business decision because due to changes in the gyms in the area to not field a Worlds Level 5 team in that market would mean losing the Level 5 and 4 athletes we did have to other gyms. So in effect we had to accelerate the building process up 1 -2 years ahead of schedule or risk losing those athletes to other programs that would offer them a competitive level 5 spot right away. The only goal was not to come in last place that first year. Of course we were joked on harshly by other programs, posters online, etc who said we had no right to be there, didnt have the skills, etc. We did not come in last, had a great experience, and learned from first hand experience what Worlds was like instead of reading about it on the boards.

Now that same program has been to Worlds the past 3 years. This year will be year 4. Every year getting better. From getting at large bid to getting Partial and Paid bids. The Level 5 program grew from one team to three teams. All have recieved bids to Worlds in the years since that 1st year going to Worlds. The gym has consitently made it to day 2 since that first year. But it all started with that first year at large bid that we were not expecting or trying to get.

If you want to reduce the number of bids that is fine. But for every team you say dont belong there on a large bid, didn't derserve it, cant compete or can't win there is a team that for them it is the start of something wonderful for that program. It infuses them with a hope that can't be gotten from watching youtube or facebook videos ofother programs attending Worlds. IMHO that is the shining light in the at large bids process. You may be seeing the future programs that will win a globe or domiate their division. Even if now is not their time. JMO.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Since my cheer parent experience is limited to my little corner of the world, I don't know what it's like elsewhere. But it seems like for some gyms, a world's team is almost a business necessity. Like you have to be able to say "we go to worlds" in order to compete for kids.

You are right more than you know.

 

[Deleted member 15]

This is what bugs me. I think that if you are going to a compeitition to receive a bid to worlds then you should be judged on the worlds scoresheet. Teams are going to competitions that basically just hand out bids when in reality if they were judged by the worlds scoresheet they would never have gotten that bid. Is there not a way that the USASF can get the scoresheet out before the first competitions of the year?

I wholeheartedly disagree.

 

[cheeromgbre]

teams should not be able to say:
"we came in 10th out of 10, but it's okay, we got a bid to Worlds."

 

[Flyer mom]

Is it smart then to judge the divisions by the size of the gyms. You have teams like Stingrays who have over 500 kids in a sm sr 5 division going against gyms with only have 100 kids and could only put out a small sr team. The large gyms have a huge advantage competing in a small division. This is in response that only the top teams have a shot at winning these divisions. Maybe if you are a large gym that goes small you can only compete against other large gyms.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Is it smart then to judge the divisions by the size of the gyms. You have teams like Stingrays who have over 500 kids in a sm sr 5 division going against gyms with only have 100 kids and could only put out a small sr team. The large gyms have a huge advantage competing in a small division. This is in response that only the top teams have a shot at winning these divisions. Maybe if you are a large gym that goes small you can only compete against other large gyms.

You judge by the rules. Rules that every coach should have or be able to get well before the event. Rules that are clearly written, with no loopholes that can be exploited seemingly only by the well connceted and known in the industry. If one program can get away with it, then every program should be able to but it isnt always seen to be this way. Rules that are enforced equally regardless of the size or stature of a program. This is the only true way to eliminate the feeling of inequity between small and large gyms. If you are going to be judged the same then it doesnt matter.

I am in favor of what has been discussed in the years past as a D1 and D2 type set up. Acedad mentioned it again recently. Simply because I feel that gyms that are building thier businesses get thrown to the wolves by fans and parents in their sporting quest to prove that another gym is better. Build your gym and program and then step in, and up. Now this might mean less competition at D1 one in some divisions but a better quality.

 

[cupieqt]

Many teams go as cdrcoach said for the experience. The first year I went it was on an at large bid. We were not bid chasing. We ended up getting an at large bid at a competition (CanAm) we had went to in previous years, just didnt have a level 5 team. After we got back from the competition and meeting with staff and parents we made the decision to accept the bid and go. We decided to go for the experience and to show the kids in the program at the time what the future look of the program needed to be. It was also a business decision because due to changes in the gyms in the area to not field a Worlds Level 5 team in that market would mean losing the Level 5 and 4 athletes we did have to other gyms. So in effect we had to accelerate the building process up 1 -2 years ahead of schedule or risk losing those athletes to other programs that would offer them a competitive level 5 spot right away. The only goal was not to come in last place that first year. Of course we were joked on harshly by other programs, posters online, etc who said we had no right to be there, didnt have the skills, etc. We did not come in last, had a great experience, and learned from first hand experience what Worlds was like instead of reading about it on the boards.

Now that same program has been to Worlds the past 3 years. This year will be year 4. Every year getting better. From getting at large bid to getting Partial and Paid bids. The Level 5 program grew from one team to three teams. All have recieved bids to Worlds in the years since that 1st year going to Worlds. The gym has consitently made it to day 2 since that first year. But it all started with that first year at large bid that we were not expecting or trying to get.

If you want to reduce the number of bids that is fine. But for every team you say dont belong there on a large bid, didn't derserve it, cant compete or can't win there is a team that for them it is the start of something wonderful for that program. It infuses them with a hope that can't be gotten from watching youtube or facebook videos ofother programs attending Worlds. IMHO that is the shining light in the at large bids process. You may be seeing the future programs that will win a globe or domiate their division. Even if now is not their time. JMO.

This is different from what we see around here. We see coaches just throwing teams together in an attempt to get a bid just so they can say "we went to Worlds". It's not for the experience or to learn and grow--it's strictly to compete for the business of other gyms. It's a recruiting tactic and it's hard to respect when other gyms have spent all year developing their teams not just for the purpose of a bid but to be a strong, respectable program.

 

[socratesofcheer]

Is it smart then to judge the divisions by the size of the gyms. You have teams like Stingrays who have over 500 kids in a sm sr 5 division going against gyms with only have 100 kids and could only put out a small sr team. The large gyms have a huge advantage competing in a small division. This is in response that only the top teams have a shot at winning these divisions. Maybe if you are a large gym that goes small you can only compete against other large gyms.

Just curious, in your example what does the size of the gym have to do with the 20 people that are competing on the floor? I don't see how having several tiny, mini, youth or level 1,2,3,or 4 cheerleaders helps your level 5 team during that season(I understand how that helps for the future of the program). I would venture to say that the large gyms have numerous athletes that will never get to level 5, so the argument of their gym is big is not necessarily a valid one.

 

[fabulousity]

although i am anti-anything and everything related to small gym vs. large gym (i'm sorry, but my program didn't always have 14 teams and it surely didn't happen over night and there were no divisions favoring our size-- so i have a hard time accepting this now), i do like the concept of the D1 and D2 gyms. however, i think that if a program wants to compete at worlds they should have to compete at D1, use the segregation at nationals-- for worlds it's all in.

 

[Flyer mom]

Just curious, in your example what does the size of the gym have to do with the 20 people that are competing on the floor? I don't see how having several tiny, mini, youth or level 1,2,3,or 4 cheerleaders helps your level 5 team during that season(I understand how that helps for the future of the program). I would venture to say that the large gyms have numerous athletes that will never get to level 5, so the argument of their gym is big is not necessarily


So as it was posted earlier that the same teams win every year and the others are there just to get in top 15. Those gyms who always finish at top of division have how many level 5 kids, and level 5 teams. The top teams every year in sm sr 5 are always going to be there because they have tons of level 5 kids to chose from. They have a harder time winning a large division than small because they can stack 20 kids no problem against a gym that maybe has only a total of 20 level 5 kids. A small gym has much harder time if someone gets hurt than a large gym, because large gym has more level 5 kids to fill spot. You proved it when you said hard for large gym to get level 5 kids, even harder for small less kids to chose from.

 

[King]

@Flyer mom @socratesofcheer

Stingrays does have a large number of kids, and quite a bit of them will never be level 5. One of the reasons our program has grown so large is while we do have athletes who may never go to Worlds or throw a full we treat EACH team with as much attention as our Worlds teams. We hang our Tiny Level 1 banner right next to the Small Senior 5 banner in our gym. It sounds like our biggest advantage is we treat all the same at the end of the day. Maybe that is our unfair advantage... we have a strong close staff who puts the time and effort into all teams? And when you put all that time into, say, a junior 2 you find and learn techniques for Small Senior 5?

Should we complain that California has multiple locations to pull from a Small Senior team? That is clearly an unfair advantage!! And their state is larger... I think it has more people... unfair advantage! They also have wayyyyy better really good burritos... UNFAIR ADVANTAGE!

 

[King]

although i am anti-anything and everything related to small gym vs. large gym (i'm sorry, but my program didn't always have 14 teams and it surely didn't happen over night and there were no divisions favoring our size-- so i have a hard time accepting this now), i do like the concept of the D1 and D2 gyms. however, i think that if a program wants to compete at worlds they should have to compete at D1, use the segregation at nationals-- for worlds it's all in.

I like the idea. And D1 and D2 cannot be held at the same event.

 

[newcheerdad]

although i am anti-anything and everything related to small gym vs. large gym (i'm sorry, but my program didn't always have 14 teams and it surely didn't happen over night and there were no divisions favoring our size-- so i have a hard time accepting this now), i do like the concept of the D1 and D2 gyms. however, i think that if a program wants to compete at worlds they should have to compete at D1, use the segregation at nationals-- for worlds it's all in.

I think my thought would be that "D2" would max out at a certain level. Kingston suggested level 3, I'd be willing to say level 4. It's more of a way to segregate real small gyms, half-year programs, etc., into their own division for competitive purposes.

If you want to complete in level 5, you have to compete in Division I. No exceptions. But the idea would be that you could have some of your teams in the same program compete in Division 2, and the other compete in Division 1.

 

[newcheerdad]

I like the idea. And D1 and D2 cannot be held at the same event.

Or at a minimum, under no circumstances could someone on a D1 team cross over to a D2 team.

 

[King]

Or at a minimum, under no circumstances could someone on a D1 team cross over to a D2 team.

D2 gyms will complain D1 gyms are recruiting their kids. Separate the two and never the paths shall cross. It's to help out the D2 gyms.