All-Star Religion In The Gym

[FierceandFearless]

my team always prays before we perform at a competition. even if the whole team doesn't, it doesn't matter. we just gather in a circle and either hold hands or wrap arms around eachother in a group hug, and me and another girl usually lead the prayer unless others decide to say it as well. (last year it was hail mary this year its the our father) and we don't make anyone join us if they don't want to. it just helps us come together as a team though. it makes some of us feel closer, and it's just a nice way to help calm nerves before going up on stage

 

[cheer8]

i dont think its the fact of prayer, i personaly belive you can pray to who you want on your own time. its just our country is a big melting pot of races religion sexuality everything and it makes people feel extra awkward when they feel compelled to do something. my friend doesnt not stand up for pledges and he made a page about it and everything. he said he will stand up when the citizens are equal. me and a lot of other students agree so we dont stand up but thats besides the point i think that religion should be left at home and in your church and in your gatherings because i dont want religion forced on me i want to find it for myself.

sorry i rambled haha

I will never keep my beliefs in my home or in church... People will be who they want to be but bc you (being anyone) don't do something doesnt mean everyone else should follow you. I will follow my Belief, you can do what you want. We are going backwards in this country... People mind your business, close your ears and don't listen. It is very easy... and definitely don't tell someone when and where to Pray. Thanks

 

[canttouchthis]

I will never keep my beliefs in my home or in church... People will be who they want to be but bc you (being anyone) don't do something doesnt mean everyone else should follow you. I will follow my Belief, you can do what you want. We are going backwards in this country... People mind your business, close your ears and don't listen. It is very easy... and definitely don't tell someone when and where to Pray. Thanks

i dont have a problem with religious people in fact they are very fun to be with i hate then they try to force there religion down my throat and come knocking on my door. i dont tell people where to pray but its better to keep it in your home in my opinion. thanks.

 

[mccracal]

While I definitely see where you're coming from, let me ask you this: Is it not embarrassing to be the 1 or 2 people that are excluding everyone else from doing something? That could very well end in a team alienating people because they won't sit in a circle and pretend to pray for 30 seconds. IMO, prayers are just words strung together unless you believe in them. Saying an Our Father makes you a Catholic as much as saying you wish somebody was dead makes you a murderer. Reading the bible and saying a prayer doesn't make you Catholic, believing in the bible and believing in the prayers is what makes you a Catholic. Now, if a coach is forcing the religion down the throats of the athletes, that's different. But to me, saying a prayer to God isn't forcing it down someone's throat.

It's a lot like school to me. In Biology I just recently took a test on the theory of evolution. Not to turn this into a "How did the World Come to be" argument, but that's not what Catholics believe in. I didn't sit there and argue with my teacher, or even give my opinion about the theory. I took in the information, learned it, studied it, and then regurgitated it onto a test and got a good grade. That being said, it didn't change my opinion on what I believe in just because I learned about something different. I imagine it is because my parents did a good job reinforcing in me that when faced with a situation like this, you must hold strong to your own beliefs. The parents of the gym are taking away a FANTASTIC life lesson sitting in front of them. Just because somebody else is doing something doesn't mean you have to agree with it, but it also doesn't mean you have to be difficult and go against it. Sometimes you're not always going to agree with what people do, but you have to choose your battles and continue to stand strong in what you believe in. That doesn't necessarily mean ruining something else that others may want to be doing.

I guess it's just all in the opinion of the individual person. I wouldn't feel awkward if I went to a primarily Jewish gym and they had me say a Jewish prayer. To others, that may be extremely awkward. I, personally, love to learn about new things like religion. That doesn't mean I'm going to change my own beliefs on something though.

First off, I just want to say that I agree with a lot of what you say, particularly about respect of other religions and whatnot. So I mean no disrespect when I ask you to consider researching what it is exactly what the Catholic Church believes. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution for more information. It's not precisely the view of evolution that a nonreligious person might have, but it's essentially the same thing. Just wanted you to know that it's perfectly acceptable for you to keep a Catholic faith while embracing scientific fact.

Additionally, I'd just like to point out that it's almost definitely for the best that you didn't argue with your teacher/give your personal opinion, because in all honesty, high school students (and I say this as one myself) aren't particularly qualified to give such opinions based on our limited experience with the material. This isn't to say that people shouldn't ever challenge anything- all of science is based on people's willingness to challenge and question what they see in the universe around them in order to discover! But, the a vast majority of people seem to misunderstand that "everyday" theories and scientific theories have two completely different connotations. As said by the US National Academy of Sciences,

"The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence. Many scientific theories are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics). One of the most useful properties of scientific theories is that they can be used to make predictions about natural events or phenomena that have not yet been observed."

Also, I think it's awesome that you're interested in learning about other religions! But remember, there's nothing wrong with challenging your own beliefs. I know from experience that a lot of people grow a lot from doing just that.

 

[Seeker30]

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[mccracal]

I feel pretty strongly about this issue, so sorry for the wall of text that's about to come forth haha. Like a lot of people have said, if the gym makes it clear that they're a fundamentally Christian organization, then you should know exactly what to expect. But a lot of gyms don't make that a focus of their business, but still participate in team-wide prayers at practice/competitions- that's what concerns me. A lot of people here have said that if the child doesn't want to participate, then they don't have to. The issue is a lot more complicated than that, particularly when you're dealing with children of an impressionable age who don't want to feel left out. Even if you give them the option to "sit out", it's still pretty blatantly obvious that they're in the minority, that they aren't the same as everybody else. Supreme Court rulings about prayer in school have made a point of this in cases like Engel v. Vitale and Wallace v. Jaffree, among others. It's important to consider, however, that they have upheld laws, such as the one in Georgia, that requires students to have a moment of silence/reflection at the beginning of each day, because they have no explicit mention of anything related to faith. I think a compromise like that would be great for the team as a whole.

I'm not oblivious to the fact that the Supreme Court rulings were only valid because they affected public schools, paid for by taxpayers, separation of church and state, etc., so a gym is certainly within its rights, as an independent business, to conduct such prayers if they choose to do so. But because religion is such a hot button issue in America due to the plethora of faiths and lack thereof that exist, I think it's only fair for a gym to do such activities if athletes/parents are made aware of the policy before they make a huge commitment to a gym. If I were a parent, I certainly wouldn't want to pay thousands of dollars to a company and find out later that my child feels compelled to participate in certain activities that don't adhere to our family's values/beliefs. I would, however, of course talk to the owners of the gym privately to see if a compromise couldn't be worked out.

If these issues are to be avoided, then parents, coaches, and athletes just need to work together to find simple compromises that are at least somewhat suitable to all parties involved.

Also, it really bothered me to see certain comments that essentially stated that the only thing that mattered was what the majority wanted. Yes, what they want is certainly relevant, but it's even more prudent to keep in mind how their desires affect the smaller group of people, and how they feel about things. Just imagine if our country's laws were only based on what the majority wanted! I guarantee you that accomplishments about slavery, women's rights issues, etc. would never have been achieved when they did had the government (particularly the courts) not taken the needs of the underrepresented minority into account. I know prayer in cheerleading isn't exactly tantamount to slavery, but I think the point still stands.

Be, open, be respectful, and everyone should end up happy.

 

[canttouchthis]

I feel pretty strongly about this issue, so sorry for the wall of text that's about to come forth haha. Like a lot of people have said, if the gym makes it clear that they're a fundamentally Christian organization, then you should know exactly what to expect. But a lot of gyms don't make that a focus of their business, but still participate in team-wide prayers at practice/competitions- that's what concerns me. A lot of people here have said that if the child doesn't want to participate, then they don't have to. The issue is a lot more complicated than that, particularly when you're dealing with children of an impressionable age who don't want to feel left out. Even if you give them the option to "sit out", it's still pretty blatantly obvious that they're in the minority, that they aren't the same as everybody else. Supreme Court rulings about prayer in school have made a point of this in cases like Engel v. Vitale and Wallace v. Jaffree, among others. It's important to consider, however, that they have upheld laws, such as the one in Georgia, that requires students to have a moment of silence/reflection at the beginning of each day, because they have no explicit mention of anything related to faith. I think a compromise like that would be great for the team as a whole.

I'm not oblivious to the fact that the Supreme Court rulings were only valid because they affected public schools, paid for by taxpayers, separation of church and state, etc., so a gym is certainly within its rights, as an independent business, to conduct such prayers if they choose to do so. But because religion is such a hot button issue in America due to the plethora of faiths and lack thereof that exist, I think it's only fair for a gym to do such activities if athletes/parents are made aware of the policy before they make a huge commitment to a gym. If I were a parent, I certainly wouldn't want to pay thousands of dollars to a company and find out later that my child feels compelled to participate in certain activities that don't adhere to our family's values/beliefs. I would, however, of course talk to the owners of the gym privately to see if a compromise couldn't be worked out.

If these issues are to be avoided, then parents, coaches, and athletes just need to work together to find simple compromises that are at least somewhat suitable to all parties involved.

Also, it really bothered me to see certain comments that essentially stated that the only thing that mattered was what the majority wanted. Yes, what they want is certainly relevant, but it's even more prudent to keep in mind how their desires affect the smaller group of people, and how they feel about things. Just imagine if our country's laws were only based on what the majority wanted! I guarantee you that accomplishments about slavery, women's rights issues, etc. would never have been achieved when they did had the government (particularly the courts) not taken the needs of the underrepresented minority into account. I know prayer in cheerleading isn't exactly tantamount to slavery, but I think the point still stands.

Be, open, be respectful, and everyone should end up happy.

i love you.
<3 Fierceboard marry me? kay thanks

 

[aggie1983]

i dont have a problem with religious people in fact they are very fun to be with i hate then they try to force there religion down my throat and come knocking on my door. i dont tell people where to pray but its better to keep it in your home in my opinion. thanks.

Our gym is openly Christian, so the girls pray at the end of practices and before competitions, but this is known from the get-go.

No intent to start anything, but I just wanted to add some food for thought. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. None come to the Father but through me.". It is each individual's choice whether or not to believe that. But if a person DOES truly believe that, than don't you see where they would be compelled to share that with those they care about and want to be saved. BUT once someone has said thanks, but no thanks- it is wrong to keep haranguing them. But it doesn't mean I might not occasionally ask again if they want to try a church service with me - recognizing that it is their right to refuse, which I must graciously accept.

 

[canttouchthis]

Our gym is openly Christian, so the girls pray at the end of practices and before competitions, but this is known from the get-go.

No intent to start anything, but I just wanted to add some food for thought. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. None come to the Father but through me.". It is each individual's choice whether or not to believe that. But if a person DOES truly believe that, than don't you see where they would be compelled to share that with those they care about and want to be saved. BUT once someone has said thanks, but no thanks- it is wrong to keep haranguing them. But it doesn't mean I might not occasionally ask again if they want to try a church service with me - recognizing that it is their right to refuse, which I must graciously accept.

see now that im okay with, people have asked me and i said no thanks when they bang on my door and i say im not interested and then the next day they do it again that gets frustrating. i understand sharing by all means i would truly love to know but there is a point when there is a line and people dont seem to know where that line is. mccarie said you cant just assume the majority wants to do it. i was on a team last year and it was predominantly christian and they all prayed and i respected it but i felt uncomfortable because everyone prayed and i didnt because i dont believe in what they do. and im not going to ostracize my self even further by not joining in. we had a team talk and then prayed and i just felt super out of place. the gym i was at previous years as well always did it. when i was in gymnastics they didnt do it but its just different for different people i guess

 

[Aussiekat]

i love you.
<3 Fierceboard marry me? kay thanks

Is polygamy legal in Fierceboard? Because I wanna marry her too. And you. So it would be a inter-gender-faith-race marriage of mutual respect between those of differing sexual orientations all tied up in a giant cheer bow. With sparkles. And shimmies.

 

[canttouchthis]

Is polygamy legal in Fierceboard? Because I wanna marry her too. And you. So it would be a inter-gender-faith-race marriage of mutual respect between those of differing sexual orientations all tied up in a giant cheer bow. With sparkles. And shimmies.

i think its legal @kingston will officiate but i want the pretty bow with the roses.

if he is even willing to touch this thread hahah

 

[mccracal]

Is polygamy legal in Fierceboard? Because I wanna marry her too. And you. So it would be a inter-gender-faith-race marriage of mutual respect between those of differing sexual orientations all tied up in a giant cheer bow. With sparkles. And shimmies.

While I'm ever so flattered, I feel obligated to mention that I'm a guy haha.

 

[aggie1983]

@mccracal.
You made some very good points, but the invoking of the so-called separation of church and state always rubs me wrong as it is no where in the Constitution. The 1st amendment guarantees the freedom to practice your religion, not freedom from religion. Atheism and secular humanism are every bit as much a "religion" as Christianity or Hinduism. Religion is just another name for your world view. And your world view/religion necessarily infuses your whole life and cannot be kept in a little box at home when you walk out the door, it is an integral part of who you are. But that does not mean you should beat other people over the head with it - that is a tactic I have never considered persuasive. Live your life so that hopefully others might be drawn to ask about what gives you strength or peace or contentment or whatever.

 

[canttouchthis]

While I'm ever so flattered, I feel obligated to mention that I'm a guy haha.

even better thats like a 3 way gay marriage assuming @BowCat is a boy they have never said

 

[canttouchthis]

@mccracal.
You made some very good points, but the invoking of the so-called separation of church and state always rubs me wrong as it is no where in the Constitution. The 1st amendment guarantees the freedom to practice your religion, not freedom from religion. Atheism and secular humanism are every bit as much a "religion" as Christianity or Hinduism. Religion is just another name for your world view. And your world view/religion necessarily infuses your whole life and cannot be kept in a little box at home when you walk out the door, it is an integral part of who you are. But that does not mean you should beat other people over the head with it - that is a tactic I have never considered persuasive. Live your life so that hopefully others might be drawn to ask about what gives you strength or peace or contentment or whatever.

i think people took my keep it in your own home comment a bit to far that was to the people that as you say beat people over the head with it