All-Star Sport Or Not

[King]

NCATA is a bit more established than stunt (it has been around a bit longer) so it has more kinks worked out. I could see where that becomes an NCAA sport and has a trickle down affect to help out everyone else.

 

[lakerfantlc]

IMO...no one ever questions the constumes/flashiness of figure skating etc...and Lord knows it's a sport.....same thing for cheerleading.

 

[crazyredhead]

I think if the ability and technique is there no one will focus on what they are wearing. There will be to many thing in the routine to talk about.

 

[flipflop]

I dont think the uniforms or makeup define if its a sport or not. I've told my daughter its hard for me to recognize all star cheer as a sport. For me it has to do with the scoring not being concete. When all competetions are judged the same it would be easier to consider all star cheer as a sport.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

The University of Oregon's football team has more uniforms than all the gyms in allstar cheer combined. Certain universities have done black outs or white outs or a color outs to intimidate their opponents. The Oakland Raiders, while not being very good, have the most intimidating uniform in the NFL.

We aren't the only sport where uniforms matter.

Can I shimmy this more than once? You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[King]

Ahem:

Black and yellow black and yellow black and yellow black and yellow

 

[BlueCat]

Like Kingston with the SO5, this is type of thread that drives me bonkers.

Is cheerleading a sport?

Step 1: Define Sport.

Everyone always skips that part and goes straight to the "but we work hard and deserve respect" argument. You can't have a serious debate about whether cheerleading is a sport without first deciding what are the factors that are required for something to be a sport in the first place.

Here is my personal definition (after years of hearing this argument over and over)

An organized contest whose results depend primarily on the physical/athletic abilities of its participants.

You will notice that "I think it is cool" or "the participants work hard" are not parts of the argument.

Using this definition - all star cheer is a sport. sideline cheer is not. This is much the same as saying that "jogging" is not a sport, but Olympic 100M sprint is.

 

[mg8923]

Like Kingston with the SO5, this is type of thread that drives me bonkers.

Is cheerleading a sport?

Step 1: Define Sport.

Everyone always skips that part and goes straight to the "but we work hard and deserve respect" argument. You can't have a serious debate about whether cheerleading is a sport without first deciding what are the factors that are required for something to be a sport in the first place.

Here is my personal definition (after years of hearing this argument over and over)

An organized contest whose results depend primarily on the physical/athletic abilities of its participants.

You will notice that "I think it is cool" or "the participants work hard" are not parts of the argument.

Using this definition - all star cheer is a sport. sideline cheer is not. This is much the same as saying that "jogging" is not a sport, but Olympic 100M sprint is.

I totally agree with you! I think maybe my title was the wrong choice of words but maybe not. If your definition is true why do we as a "sport" have to prove ourselves and what exactly is holding us back.

I mean think about it, the University of Alabama doesn't do the glitter, flashy make up or any of that stuff they do exactly as your definition states but once again they are not considered a sport in the eye of the university.

What do we as an organization need to do to gain that respect? What do we need to change or better yet is it the way we "sell our sport" that is doing us in.

 

[blunchin]

To some degree, yes. I'm not saying I don't like it, because I love the uniforms and showmanship element to it. That being said, while other sports have uniforms, they don't complain when it's not flashy or 'fierce' enough. They don't have endless conversations about which team has the best competition/match/meet makeup. And most sports (some people consider gymnastics and figure skating on the lesser end of that spectrum) don't worry about people trashing their uniform for showing too much skin (minus gymnasts, figure skaters, and occasionally volleyball shorts. Depends on the uniform..)

I don't think we need to completely get rid of bows or overhaul uniforms entirely (I know girls who wore small pony bows in volleyball/soccer), but you don't see many other activities-considered-sports busting out the metallic spandex/zebra print and rhinestone machine, do you?

i beg to differ. although there is concern with "appearance", this also a sport that is dominated by females. i think the fact that the majority of cheerleaders are girls there is already a presumption that it is less legitimate than a sport dominated by men. the hair and makeup are important aspects but at the end of the day were are competing and winning based off of skills. it's 2011...definitions change every day so i think the word sport can be redefined to mean much more than it did 20, 30 years ago. many athletes in professional sports add their own personal twists to their uniforms and appearances to express individuality . we are not debating these people are anything less than athletes when they clearly care about what they look like too. it may not be as obvious or "feminine" as hair and makeup but it's definitely there.

 

[BlueCat]

I'm not saying that my definition is the end-all-be-all of how to define sport. My main point was that before you can intelligently discuss whether or not cheer is a sport, you have to be able to state what a "sport" is. If someone else would like to throw out their definition, then have at it.

 

[ztaprincess]

I'm not saying that my definition is the end-all-be-all of how to define sport. My main point was that before you can intelligently discuss whether or not cheer is a sport, you have to be able to state what a "sport" is. If someone else would like to throw out their definition, then have at it.

Glad that I read till the end of the thread before I posted because I was going to post something along these lines. I know that the athletes in all star cheer are very passionate about cheerleading being recognized as a sport, but please make sure the argument can be taken seriously. You can't just say "well I am at the gym 9 hours a week so I know what I do is a sport" instead focus on what will make it qualify as a sport to people.

Sure the uniforms may cause some to take cheer less seriously, but it is that key term ORGANIZED that in my opinion causes a problem. Many people are working to make cheer more organized across the board and that is where to start. Get the "sport" in order and then you can work on your argument for people.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

I think my only issue with this is that EVERY time I either have this argument/discussion or see others have it, everyone chimes in with their "definition" of the word sport. But the problem is that that isn't actually how definitions work--you don't get to make your own personal definition. The word actually already has a definition in the dictionary, which appears to be: a physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. (Yes, I looked it up, both online and in an actual hard copy dictionary

)

So, by actual definition, cheerleading is, most definitely a sport. I don't think that's actually the argument though. I think there are 2 variations of this argument:

1. the average Joe who says "Standing on the side of a field/court clapping your hands is NOT a sport." Easy to argue, then, that Allstar doesn't fit into this category, since NO ONE I know actually does that (other than when they are doing sideline, but I think we all agree that that isn't what we're talking about). Problem? Most of these "Average Joes" aren't actually interested in being dazzled by any facts--they're interested in being smarta$$es and putting something down that they know nothing about (nor do they have any desire to expand their horizons and know about it). Basically a waste of time to have this argument.

2. More informed folks, who are looking at it from a Title IX perspective. On this point, I'm sort of torn. I can see how they could look at us and say we aren't organized enough, and our competition "circuit" (for lack of a better word) isn't exactly organized, fair, consistent. I don't know enough about college cheer to really speak on whether or not it's more orgainzed than Allstar and whether or not it fits Title IX guidelines or not though.

All that being said, I don't really think the outfits are the problem at all. I think it's the preconceived notions people have about cheer--and I don't think those are going to change anytime soon, no matter what we wear.

 

[BlueCat]

You can easily go through and cherry-pick through hundreds of sources of defintions found across the web and in print. Saying that someone's "doesn't count because it isn't official" isn't really fair, since there is no single, standard "official" definition. My point was that you needed a starting point. If you are going to claim that cheer IS a sport, you have to be able to say what a sport is. I have seen hundreds of posts on this topic over the last 15 years and RARELY does anyone "chime in with their definition".

any activity or experience that gives enjoyment or recreation; pastime; diversion

Such an activity, esp. when competitive, requiring more or less vigorous bodily exertion and carried on, sometimes as a profession, according to some traditional form or set of rules, whether outdoors, as football, golf, etc., or indoors, as basketball, bowling, etc.

An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition

an activity in which players or teams compete against each other, usually an activity that involves physical effort

a game, competition or activity needing physical effort and skill that is played or done according to rules, for enjoyment and/or as a job

all types of physical activity which people do to keep healthy or for enjoyment

an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition

 

[Just-a-Mom]

You can easily go through and cherry-pick through hundreds of sources of defintions found across the web and in print. Saying that someone's "doesn't count because it isn't official" isn't really fair, since there is no single, standard "official" definition. My point was that you needed a starting point. If you are going to claim that cheer IS a sport, you have to be able to say what a sport is. I have seen hundreds of posts on this topic over the last 15 years and RARELY does anyone "chime in with their definition".

any activity or experience that gives enjoyment or recreation; pastime; diversion

Such an activity, esp. when competitive, requiring more or less vigorous bodily exertion and carried on, sometimes as a profession, according to some traditional form or set of rules, whether outdoors, as football, golf, etc., or indoors, as basketball, bowling, etc.

An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition

an activity in which players or teams compete against each other, usually an activity that involves physical effort

a game, competition or activity needing physical effort and skill that is played or done according to rules, for enjoyment and/or as a job

all types of physical activity which people do to keep healthy or for enjoyment

an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition

I was actually in a round-about way agreeing with you (you'll notice I "shimmy'd" you)--just not your phrase "my personal definition". And I have seen hundreds of posts that do have definitions. I actually like your definition, and think it is an accurate one. I still stand by what I said though, that if you're going to ask people to define something, it can't really be a "personal" thing. I've been on a board where someone swore up and down that the definition of sport was "a physical activity, in which one opponent physically prevents another from scoring points through goals".

Come on...really? Um, I think that's only the definition when you're trying to convince me that cheer isn't a sport.

If we're just going to allow anyone making the argument to define the word however they see fit, then it defeats the point of wanting to be called a sport. The whole point is that most people involved in allstar want to be respected by "outsiders"--not so much that we want to re-define the word sport, but that we want to show that what we do is comparable to what others do that are considered sports. So actually, for the purpose of trying to "argue" the point that cheer is a sport, we actually do need to use a more "official" definition. Otherwise we're trying to change someone's perception of the word sport, not their perception of the activity we are doing.

 

[BlueCat]

My use of the phrase "personal definition" wasn't clear. (My bad) It certainly isn't my place to go around defining words. As I have already stated, I had no intention of implying that that was the end-all-be-all definition.

It just the one I go by when making the argument. It seems to catch the "spirit" of most of the more restrictive definitions out there and most closely matches (IMO) the way most people use it in everyday language. If there is an "official" definition, the we should by all means use that one. However, I do not believe that a single, "official" definition exists.

SIDE NOTE: One of the quickest ways to stump most people trying to argue that cheerleading ISN'T a sport is to ask them to define the term.