All-Star Sport Or Not

[ztaprincess]

Problem is right now all of cheer is not goverened by a single body under a single set of rules. Some gyms are not USASF members and competitions have different scoresheets. Most sports you think of have 1 major governing body and have 1 set of rules/scoresheet. I am all for calling cheer a sport, but to get it recognized by those OUTSIDE cheer those things need worked on. I feel like the USASF is helping work towards that. If NCAA get control over college cheer, USASF gets control over all star, and then each state decides who controls their high school cheer then I see things as more organized and more people understanding the work that goes into it. The process of recognition has to start on the inside and then once that gets working like a well oiled machine the outside can be worked on.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

My use of the phrase "personal definition" wasn't clear. (My bad) It certainly isn't my place to go around defining words. As I have already stated, I had no intention of implying that that was the end-all-be-all definition.

It just the one I go by when making the argument. It seems to catch the "spirit" of most of the more restrictive definitions out there and most closely matches (IMO) the way most people use it in everyday language. If there is an "official" definition, the we should by all means use that one. However, I do not believe that a single, "official" definition exists.

SIDE NOTE: One of the quickest ways to stump most people trying to argue that cheerleading ISN'T a sport is to ask them to define the term.

And btw...I think your definition actually sums up all the other ones I found in a concise way--I might use it from now on when I have this argument (which, unfortunately, is about once a week...). And I should clarify that my eye rolling face was making fun of myself for being such a dork that I'm actually at my desk at work looking up the word sport! :oops: Not at you for not looking it up! :p

 

[King]

My use of the phrase "personal definition" wasn't clear. (My bad) It certainly isn't my place to go around defining words. As I have already stated, I had no intention of implying that that was the end-all-be-all definition.

It just the one I go by when making the argument. It seems to catch the "spirit" of most of the more restrictive definitions out there and most closely matches (IMO) the way most people use it in everyday language. If there is an "official" definition, the we should by all means use that one. However, I do not believe that a single, "official" definition exists.

SIDE NOTE: One of the quickest ways to stump most people trying to argue that cheerleading ISN'T a sport is to ask them to define the term.

I do like your argument, though I think saying how is competitive cheerleading not a sport is the better question.

and to sum up your definition (so i can use it later): a sport is an organized physical activity with rules and regulations where the winner is largely determined by the performance of physical abilities.

that about right?

 

[Mr.Kevin]

I love what Serena Williams has done for tennis, although she can take it overboard, but she broke that mold of boring. I don't think that rhythmic gymnastics or ice skating would be the same without a little flash. Even competitive gymnastics has started to break out a little bling now and even a little mascara :)

Hey for us old-schoolers, how about Florence Griffith-Joyner?? (I just KNOW that I'm butchering her name ... "FloJo" was what she was known as.) She was an olympic track star and had the make-up, nails, special running outfits ... the whole 9. No question that she was an athlete ... she just looked DARNED good doing it! And talkabout uni's, glitter and bling ... watch ice dance or ice skating - and it is an olympic sport!

Not all teams are blingy - but all teams ARE athletic.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

I do like your argument, though I think saying how is competitive cheerleading not a sport is the better question.

and to sum up your definition (so i can use it later): a sport is an organized physical activity with rules and regulations where the winner is largely determined by the performance of physical abilities.

that about right?

Do you know in all my years of having this argument I've never tried this? I'm so busy explaining why it's a sport, I've never thought to just say "Really? How is it not a sport?" LOL...so after I read this I tried it and my boss says <with a totally straight face> "They don't have it in England...at least not that I've ever seen."

WITW???:confused: LOL

But I think in the future when people tell me it's not a sport, I'm going to ask them.

 

[MissCongeniality]

I think we can bring up Flo Jo or Venus or even someone like Dennis Rodman as wearing/looking flashy in a "sport". But the reality is they are individuals and are few and far between.

With all star cheer it is entire teams spray tanning and applying fake lashes. So yes, I think that the "uniforms" (and I include the spray tan/lashes/bling...the whole package when I say uniform) does a disservice to the way people view all-star cheer. I mean seriously, when you see Snooki do you think "athlete"? (And totally not saying most all star cheerleaders look like Snooki, but there are some who out-Snooki Snooki)

More than that though I think, as another poster already said, the lack of organization and one ruling body is a huge negative. And it seems like whenever one organization tries to take charge and organize it all, another steps in thinking they have a better way. Seriously everyone is going to have to work together if they ever want to get this to be recognized as a legitimate sport.

For my daughter, it is an extremely athletic activity that she loves doing. Whether it be considered a "sport" by others, doesn't change her enjoyment of it.

 

[stuntaholic]

With all star cheer it is entire teams spray tanning and applying fake lashes. So yes, I think that the "uniforms" (and I include the spray tan/lashes/bling...the whole package when I say uniform) does a disservice to the way people view all-star cheer. I mean seriously, when you see Snooki do you think "athlete"? (And totally not saying most all star cheerleaders look like Snooki, but there are some who out-Snooki Snooki)

I think you nailed it right there. Like you are saying other sports will have a minimal amount of athletes that have the flashyness. But in All-Star cheer its everyone. I am not sure how other states are but for Illinois high school cheer there really isnt any make-up allowed. The uniforms are more reserved than all-star. I have been both an all-star cheerleader and a high school cheerleader. I am currently a coach of a high school squad. I think that this lack of flashy attire has made Illinois cheer seem like more of a sport. Most of the schools that I have been at or worked with in Illinois see cheer as a sport. But while I was in all-star cheer it seemed that there was a lot of people that deemed it not a sport. I think that the attire has something to do with it.

Problem is right now all of cheer is not goverened by a single body under a single set of rules. Some gyms are not USASF members and competitions have different scoresheets. Most sports you think of have 1 major governing body and have 1 set of rules/scoresheet. I am all for calling cheer a sport, but to get it recognized by those OUTSIDE cheer those things need worked on. I feel like the USASF is helping work towards that. If NCAA get control over college cheer, USASF gets control over all star, and then each state decides who controls their high school cheer then I see things as more organized and more people understanding the work that goes into it. The process of recognition has to start on the inside and then once that gets working like a well oiled machine the outside can be worked on.

I also agree with this. I honestly do not think cheer is a sport specifically because of this reason. There isnt one governing body. There isnt one set of rules. Nor is there one specific scoresheet. I think all of this needs to be developed in order for cheer to be seen as a sport. You may see minor changes in rules from the NFL through Pop Warner football but the same general idea stays in tact. Also the rules that are changed dont change the sport much at all. But even just high school cheer in Illinois and All-star cheer are very different. It is almost impossible for people who come from one to understand the scoring in the other.

 

[BlueCat]

I do like your argument, though I think saying how is competitive cheerleading not a sport is the better question.

and to sum up your definition (so i can use it later): a sport is an organized physical activity with rules and regulations where the winner is largely determined by the performance of physical abilities.

that about right?

Pretty much sums it up. I think any definition should exclude chess, poker, etc, while including subjective sports like gymnastics, figure skating, and competition cheer. (I believe this definition serves that purpose.)

Also note: any definition will almost always include as sports things that many think are silly. Darts, curling, synchronized swimming, etc. You simply can't (IMO) put something's "coolness" factor as part of the definition.

 

[stuntaholic]

Pretty much sums it up. I think any definition should exclude chess, poker, etc, while including subjective sports like gymnastics, figure skating, and competition cheer. (I believe this definition serves that purpose.)

Also note: any definition will almost always include as sports things that many think are silly. Darts, curling, synchronized swimming, etc. You simply can't (IMO) put something's "coolness" factor as part of the definition.

Just as a side note: I love curling watching curling and will always consider it a great sport.

 

[CGAcheer]

Pretty much sums it up. I think any definition should exclude chess, poker, etc, while including subjective sports like gymnastics, figure skating, and competition cheer. (I believe this definition serves that purpose.)

Also note: any definition will almost always include as sports things that many think are silly. Darts, curling, synchronized swimming, etc. You simply can't (IMO) put something's "coolness" factor as part of the definition.

synchronized swimming is allstars in the pool ;)

There is NO reason that Allstars is not a sport:
1. lack of organization/ multiple organizations - In Football, there is the NFL, Arena Football, NCAA, High School, Pop Warner, other youth leagues and for a little while the XFL and I even believe there is the Lingerie Football League. They all have the same general rules but there are some definite differences but they are all still playing Football.

2. Uniforms/Glitz/make up- Do football player who wear "war paint" on their faces still play a sport? Are Female Tennis players wearing a skirt playing any less of a sport than male tennis players? Are MMA fighters who have dyed hair and tattoos and logos all over their shorts doing anything different than their clean cut counterparts?

3. I don't think many people discount the athleticism involved anymore.

The only thing that can get us is dependent on the definition of a sport. If you take it as an Athletic contest in which two teams or individuals are in direct physical competition, Which would eliminate the majority of the olympics, Then Allstar cheer is not a sport.

As for the Title IX ruling, NCATA at the time didn't offer enough competitive opportunities to count towards Title IX compliance.

But if you go for Allstar being a sport, you have to include Synchronized Swimming, competitive Square Dancing, Competitive Hot Dog eating, bowling, jump rope, competitive dance, figure skating, darts, horseshoes, baseball and pretty much anything else with rules, competition and physical skill

 

[aalyiah]

all star cheer is most definitely a sport. the way we look shouldn't change what we are doing. not only are all star cheerleaders some of the most intense athletes but also performers, so obviously they have to look the part.

 

[aalyiah]

i think that all star cheerleading is most definitely a sport. not only are they amazing athletes but also performers so obviously they have to look the part.

 

[ztaprincess]

The lack of organization is mostly the scoresheets and the fact that gyms do not have to be a member of the USASF. Yes there are different football governing bodies, but the NFL is like the "all star cheer" of football. They have 1 governing body and 1 way to play the game. NCAA football has their governing body and way to play the game. Now for cheer if NCAA takes over college cheer and USASF steps in and takes over all star completely then that is more of the organization that football has. Now I know that there are minor leagues (not sure what they are called in football) but I am talking about the MAJOR players in football. You could do the same with basketball, there is the NBA for the pros and NCAA for the college players.

Cheer is not super unorganized but it isn't organized to the point where people can look at it and make sense of it all in order to understand the hard work that goes on. People always focus on getting cheer recognized by performances and that is great because it shows the athletic ability, but also getting respect and recognition from the outside world is going to take some work on the inside. They can respect what cheerleaders put on the mat all they want, but if the inner workings are a jumbled mess then respect can go out the door. I just feel like if people want to take a step in the right direction it isn't with what is put on the mat but what is taking place behind the scenes.

 

[SharkDad]

This is the most relevant post so far. If cheerleading is to be recognized as a sport at any level, it has to have cooperation of the competitors under a single governing body, not just camps and competitions organized by businesses and event producers.

 

[PghxCheer2]

I could not agree with ztaprincess more. Allstar cheer isn't a sport. Stop sulking in the fact of "We work hard." because you will never be taken seriously in your arguments. Do I think chess is a sport? absolutely not. But they still work just as hard as a cheerleader or football player, except they're using intellectual ability as opposed to athleticism. The most important part of this argument, imo, comes from the complete confusion that cheer brings from the inside. No matter where you are in the world: in american-style football a touchdown is worth 6 points, in baseball a ball caught in the air is worth 1 out, in basketball a field goal is either 2 or 3 points with a clear cut line defining the difference. In gymnastics, every element has a set skill value that is the same for everyone no matter where you're from. I think cheer needs to follow these examples, especially relating to gymnastics. There will always be a subjunctive part in every sport. There will always be people who blame it on "all the politics in this sport". That's just life. But having 100 different scoresheets, coaches that aren't even properly certified, gyms that aren't insured, no set way to properly identify an athlete's skill level, etc. are sure as heck not helping this whole situation in any way whatsoever. Allstar cheer has so much potential, but you can't be a sport when you have as many kinks and so much gray area. We can't just snap our fingers and everything's fixed and perfect. Nor can we ignore adapting a universal score sheet or athlete credentialing. I think those are just some of the things necessary to be taken seriously. The "sports" that cheer is compared to have taken decades and centuries to develop into what they are today. Allstar cheer is still a relatively new concept when relating it to things like baseball, baksetball, bobsled racing, etc.