All-Star Sport Or Not

[JUSTICE]

I'm just torn between confusion and lack of education??? What the hell does someones uniform, or color of choice of uniform have to do with ANYTHING?? I just don't get your perspective or agenda about the whole thing?? All Star uniforms--just as NBA, NFL, NHL, and many other professional leagues have a standard of appearance!! To each their own!! You like it, or you don't. Can't get more simplified than that!!

 

[MissCongeniality]

I'm just torn between confusion and lack of education??? What the hell does someones uniform, or color of choice of uniform have to do with ANYTHING?? I just don't get your perspective or agenda about the whole thing?? All Star uniforms--just as NBA, NFL, NHL, and many other professional leagues have a standard of appearance!! To each their own!! You like it, or you don't. Can't get more simplified than that!!

While I totally agree that the uniform shouldn't matter... the reality is that to others "looking in" (so to speak) it does. Right now to those "looking in" all-star cheer looks more like it aligns with "Toddlers and Tiaras" than something like soccer or baseball. While I think that the uniforms are far from the biggest problem in all-star cheer (again like I stated earlier, the lack of a single governing body and organization is what I feel hurts the most!) the uniforms (tan, lashes, bling) are a factor in all-star not being taken seriously to many in the sports world.

 

[kristenthegreat]

i beg to differ. although there is concern with "appearance", this also a sport that is dominated by females. i think the fact that the majority of cheerleaders are girls there is already a presumption that it is less legitimate than a sport dominated by men. the hair and makeup are important aspects but at the end of the day were are competing and winning based off of skills. it's 2011...definitions change every day so i think the word sport can be redefined to mean much more than it did 20, 30 years ago. many athletes in professional sports add their own personal twists to their uniforms and appearances to express individuality . we are not debating these people are anything less than athletes when they clearly care about what they look like too. it may not be as obvious or "feminine" as hair and makeup but it's definitely there.

I agree with just about everything you posted. I just think there's a difference between 'adding a personal twist' to a uniform and 'having a lengthy argument about the merits of most Varsity unis vs. GKs.' There are plenty of other sports dominated by females (although those numbers might vary by country-I'd say field hockey, figure skating, and volleyball are three here), but you've got 3 different 'standards'.

Do I think the uniforms/glitter/flashy-fierceness are the 'Be All, End All' of our sport/not a sport problems? No. But when it comes to the middle reasons tipping the scale, I think it plays a factor. There are people who don't consider figure skating a sport. Female OR male.

 

[Ashley]

I'm just torn between confusion and lack of education??? What the hell does someones uniform, or color of choice of uniform have to do with ANYTHING?? I just don't get your perspective or agenda about the whole thing?? All Star uniforms--just as NBA, NFL, NHL, and many other professional leagues have a standard of appearance!! To each their own!! You like it, or you don't. Can't get more simplified than that!!

The uniforms don't mean that we can't or aren't a sport. Nothing about how we dress or act precludes us from that definition. But it DOES affect the way people view us. Dressing like we're competing in a beauty pageant instead of an athletic competition doesn't help the cause (and I mean no disrespect to beauty pageants in that statement).

And for what it's worth, one of my open teams competed in shorts and a t-shirt with a basic bow and no glitter makeup all season and it never affected how we were scored. We did quite well at all of our competitions and won our division at US Finals - across all events, not just the location we attended.

 

[SharkDad]

Whether you think its a sport or not, the question has to be "what has to happen for the public to be educated and understand what you or your kids do as a sport?"

If you think the look doesn't affect that opinion, you need read the ESPN article that just came out. http://sports.espn.go.com/insider/news/story?id=6090933

 

[stuntaholic]

synchronized swimming is allstars in the pool ;)

There is NO reason that Allstars is not a sport:
1. lack of organization/ multiple organizations - In Football, there is the NFL, Arena Football, NCAA, High School, Pop Warner, other youth leagues and for a little while the XFL and I even believe there is the Lingerie Football League. They all have the same general rules but there are some definite differences but they are all still playing Football.

2. Uniforms/Glitz/make up- Do football player who wear "war paint" on their faces still play a sport? Are Female Tennis players wearing a skirt playing any less of a sport than male tennis players? Are MMA fighters who have dyed hair and tattoos and logos all over their shorts doing anything different than their clean cut counterparts?

In reference to #1 while there are slight differences someone who is a casual viewer can easily pick up on the rule differences. This is not as easy with cheer. Also with all of those the scoring is exactly the same. For cheer this is not true.

In reference to #2 the eye black that football players wear does not make them appear feminine. The reason cheer is seen not as a sport when talking about uniforms is the fact that it is too feminine. There are many alternate ways that cheerleaders can dress. As I have said before in this thread cheerleaders in Illinois that cheer for high school wear reserved uniforms and little to no make-up. It is possible to make cheer look less feminine and I think that this would help make cheer appear as a legitimate sport.

 

[kkinsley]

after I read this I tried it and my boss says <with a totally straight face> "They don't have it in England...at least not that I've ever seen."

We do have cheer in England, and the rest of the UK so you can let your boss know and maybe they will think of it as a sport ;)
We even have Jamfest over here now as well :eek: It will take us a long time to get it considered a sport here though. A lot of the press report it only when talking about how british children are being overly influenced by all things American. It's unfortunate but they only report the sterotype of sideline cheer :mad:

 

[CGAcheer]

In reference to #1 while there are slight differences someone who is a casual viewer can easily pick up on the rule differences. This is not as easy with cheer. Also with all of those the scoring is exactly the same. For cheer this is not true.

In reference to #2 the eye black that football players wear does not make them appear feminine. The reason cheer is seen not as a sport when talking about uniforms is the fact that it is too feminine. There are many alternate ways that cheerleaders can dress. As I have said before in this thread cheerleaders in Illinois that cheer for high school wear reserved uniforms and little to no make-up. It is possible to make cheer look less feminine and I think that this would help make cheer appear as a legitimate sport.

So do you look at the illinois hs cheerleaders as more of a sport than what Top Gun did last year at Worlds? Simply because they are modestly dressed versus TG competing in those white uniforms from worlds?

Feminine girls can play sports too

Arena Football, Lingerie and XFL all had different scoring than the NFL and NCAA, Overtimes are completely different, there are different rules about how you are allowed to tackle people and how you can start a play and how many people you can have on a team, they have different sized fields and different size balls. I would say the differences in the various footballs are greater than the scoring variances between competition companies. At least we follow the same rules and use the same performance surface.

 

[King]

So do you look at the illinois hs cheerleaders as more of a sport than what Top Gun did last year at Worlds? Simply because they are modestly dressed versus TG competing in those white uniforms from worlds?

Feminine girls can play sports too

Arena Football, Lingerie and XFL all had different scoring than the NFL and NCAA, Overtimes are completely different, there are different rules about how you are allowed to tackle people and how you can start a play and how many people you can have on a team, they have different sized fields and different size balls. I would say the differences in the various footballs are greater than the scoring variances between competition companies. At least we follow the same rules and use the same performance surface.

Except a touch is 7 points where ever you go for american style football. A fullup isnt a fullup where every you go (sometimes you gotta shimmy).

though I did like the first part of your post.

 

[SharkDad]

This argument will go around and around amongst us. It's a given that everyone on the fierceboard considers cheer a sport.

Do you want cheer to be considered a sport by the public outside of cheer? If so then what do you think we need to do differently to change what they think now?

 

[CGAcheer]

Except a touch is 7 points where ever you go for american style football. A fullup isnt a fullup where every you go (sometimes you gotta shimmy).

though I did like the first part of your post.

xfl didn't have kicked extra points and had the choice of either a 2 point conversion or 3 point conversion after touch downs
AFL you can get 4 points for doing a drop kick
Lingerie Football league has way skimpier uniforms and no field goals or kicked extra points and has 1 and 2 point conversions based on where you start from

and that is just the scoring differences, there are tons of rule differences, but they are all still football which is considered a sport.

At least allstars uses the same rules and the same performance surface There are just scoring variances between companies.

Could it be better? of course. But is it a legit reason to say that allstar isn't a sport? no.

 

[King]

This argument will go around and around amongst us. It's a given that everyone on the fierceboard considers cheer a sport.

Do you want cheer to be considered a sport by the public outside of cheer? If so then what do you think we need to do differently to change what they think now?

id like to be considered a sport by the people in it more than the people out of it, but that in itself is asking too much.

 

[SharkDad]

Noted. . .we'll have to work on that one cautiously

 

[Just-a-Mom]

We do have cheer in England, and the rest of the UK so you can let your boss know and maybe they will think of it as a sport ;)
We even have Jamfest over here now as well :eek: It will take us a long time to get it considered a sport here though. A lot of the press report it only when talking about how british children are being overly influenced by all things American. It's unfortunate but they only report the sterotype of sideline cheer :mad:

LOL! I told him that they have it there. i was going to send him a link, but anything that has the word "cheerleader" in it gets filtered by our company's porn policy.

It's one thing for me, mom of 2 cheerleaders, to get a "flag" for looking at cheerleader sites, an entirely different thing for my single, 40-year-old boss to get it!

But I am making progress--one person at a time. he is going to come to the April 16th competition with us! I jokingly told him if he keeps saying it's not a sport I was going to make him go to a comp, and he said he would come! he says it's not really fair to keep judging something he's never even seen, so he'll give it "a fair shot". (And for the record, he's known my kids for 10 years, so he's not just some creepy guy from my job coming to check out girls...)

***And with regards to the Illinois high school cheerleaders' "look": having lived a lot of places the last 20 years, I don't think it's any different than high school cheer across the country. They look just like any other high school cheer team anywhere. So I'm not sure why it's Illinois being used as example, as opposed to just HS cheer in general.

 

[Emily Jane]

LOL! I told him that they have it there. i was going to send him a link, but anything that has the word "cheerleader" in it gets filtered by our company's porn policy. :eek: It's one thing for me, mom of 2 cheerleaders, to get a "flag" for looking at cheerleader sites, an entirely different thing for my single, 40-year-old boss to get it!:p

But I am making progress--one person at a time. he is going to come to the April 16th competition with us! I jokingly told him if he keeps saying it's not a sport I was going to make him go to a comp, and he said he would come! he says it's not really fair to keep judging something he's never even seen, so he'll give it "a fair shot". (And for the record, he's known my kids for 10 years, so he's not just some creepy guy from my job coming to check out girls...)

***And with regards to the Illinois high school cheerleaders' "look": having lived a lot of places the last 20 years, I don't think it's any different than high school cheer across the country. They look just like any other high school cheer team anywhere. So I'm not sure why it's Illinois being used as example, as opposed to just HS cheer in general.

Does this one work? It doesn't have the word 'cheerleader' in it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMjagU4fdfM