All-Star Super Spin-off: Priorities

[yojaehs]

I am a coach and here are mine!
#1. Better judges certifications. I don't care what rules or scoring system you have in place if you have incompetent people making the ultimate decision it becomes irrelivant.
#2. Universal Score Sheet. I've always been a fan of this however this season we are going to more "different" events and it is ignorant how every score sheet says the same thing but in a different way and counts skills differently, just plain STUPID! I agree that "we" chose to go to "different" events so it's our choice and we need to deal with it (which we are) but I truly feel that this will hurt EP's bc I KNOW that next year we will chose more events with similar score sheets.
#3. Coaches certification. It's a joke, if I'm paying $100+ I expect that my proof of knowledge of cheerleading should show that it is greater than that of a random person who has never seen a megaphone and could pass the current test in 10 minutes with a perfect score. Hands on clinics where coaches have to PROVE their knowledge of technique and more important, SAFETY. Yes, it costs more money, I'll pay it. If you don't want to pay more money then don't coach. There are REGIONAL conferences held EVERY year in multiple locations that this can offer a way for this to be done, MAKE IT HAPPEN!
#4. Gym Certification/athletic registration. So so so many complaints of gyms/kids etc. about who they are and what they are doing. Find a system that tracks it. This will allow PARENTS an opportunity to trust the quality of the gym they choose. This SHOULD also allow gyms and opportunity to register their programs to competitions with much less difficulty.
#5. USASF hire more people. Yeah yeah yeah, they don't have money...BLAH! Well guess what I paid my money and so did everyone in my gym so I expect that you do more, yes there are TONS of things expected but I paid my money and I will continue to expect MORE. If the "cost" of worlds is going more towards the venue, the Orange County Convention Center is less than 5 miles away has more room and is less expensive. You STILL get the draw of Orlando while cutting cost, you might not get ESPN but hire "Cheer Live" and we can all see it sooner and see ALL the teams. :deadhorse: (yeah I brought out the horse, only bc it felt necessary)
Ok, it took forever but I narrowed it down to 5 lol.

 

[XtremeWpg]

Without a doubt the biggest problem we have today in cheerleading is the poorly educated judging panels....

1. They interpret the rubric and scoring grids any way they want so results are always in question...

2. They have very little idea about what is hard and what is not.. most have not taught cheerleading since the "pony sit" was all the rage...

3. There is no system in place to qualify judges...we test and certify rules judges so we are sure they they know the latest interpretations of the rules yet we have judges with level 3 knowledge of skills judge level 5 routines...

As a judge, how do you want the USASF to qualify someone to judge? How many different score sheets are there, and we're all to be trained on all of them? I know for where I judge, each fall we take a judging clinic and have to take an exam (judging a YouTube video in the areas we wish to judge ie-building skills & tosses, deductions, choreo etc). But we only use 1 score sheet.

Essentially, until you have a consistant *single* score sheet for all EPs, to have exact consistancy in judging is virtually impossible.

 

[ztaprincess]

Just a fan here but am still truly interested in bettering the sport as much as I can.

1. Universal Scoresheets: I mention this not only for the reasons already said but mostly because I feel that all worlds eligible teams should be scored on the WORLDS scoresheet in order to obtain a bid. I think this sort of fits into the Universal Scoresheet discussion because it would be the same scoresheet at any competition handing out bids. I hate that teams can win a paid bid at an event that basically ignores deductions and others go where deductions can cost you the bid. On top of that it would help with International level 5 and 6 teams where stunting so worth so much at worlds but not at other competitions so you can get a better idea of how they will stack up at worlds and also so they don't have to change their routines so much right before worlds.

2. Make scoresheets avalible: if nothing shady is going on I don't see why people would be so against this, if anything it can help your reputation if things are done fairly.

3. A downright stronger and more organized USASF: Many people complain that people do not take cheer as a sport seriously but their first thing to throw out to make an argument is injuries...WRONG! I myself sometimes can't take cheer as a sport seriously because of how disorganized things are done (I feel the same way when things in the NCAA are done awkwardly). Something that is key to make cheer taken seriously isn't the skill, we already have that, it is the fact that it needs to run like a well oiled machine and right now it needs some WD-40 in spots.

4. Better enforcement of the rules across the board. Even with the waiver rule, the team that got caught barely got a slap on the wrist so how is that suppose to scare gyms from doing the same thing? On top of that, I hate to beat this dead horse again, you have to remember Bangkok-gate again where rules were not strictly enforced and look at what the result was, a first place finish. If you are going to put the rule out there then enforce it 100% of the time not 90% because you don't want to hurt feelings.

5. Judging issues!! *basically it has already been said in this thread too many times to repeat it*

 

[BlueCat]

Things I would like to see personally. (Not necessarily in order.)

1. Eliminate secretive scoring allowing coaches/athletes/parents to better understand results.
2. Universal scoring system. Current situation is absurd.
3. Achieve a more even balance of representation on major USASF boards/committees, but make them smaller and more efficient
4. Better tracking of athletes/teams/gyms to improve decision-making.
5. Open-source judging/scoring system allowing scores to be immediate and less error-prone

Sorry, I'm a gym owner, coach, parent, former athlete, & former event producer.

 

[yojaehs]

As a judge, how do you want the USASF to qualify someone to judge? How many different score sheets are there, and we're all to be trained on all of them? I know for where I judge, each fall we take a judging clinic and have to take an exam (judging a YouTube video in the areas we wish to judge ie-building skills & tosses, deductions, choreo etc). But we only use 1 score sheet.

Essentially, until you have a consistant *single* score sheet for all EPs, to have exact consistancy in judging is virtually impossible.

Your training process is not the norm. I would be supportive of a process that you say you went through. Even if the score sheets are different this shows me (a coach/gym owner, clarify, I'm a coach NOT a gym owner, gym owners are all crazy LOL JK) you can recognize the appropriate skills so IMO (even though I am strongly FOR a Universal score sheet) at least this process shows at least SOME knowledge and recognition. I would like to attend a clinic like this just to see what judges actually have to go through. I think the complaints of poor judging have increased the NEED for a better system although I'll always push for more. IMO, ultimately as long as gyms keep going back to poorly produced/judged events, they will still exist and they will continue to do the bare minimum.

 

[Mamarazzi]

Parent
You all have pretty much said what I would have said, but one thing that I think really needs to be addressed is a formal complaint system. If this exists already, I had no idea.
I understand that many gyms do community (state/federal) criminal background checks on staff prior to hire. However, the loophole is that if the potential employee has done a million immoral, distasteful, or questionable (but not technically illegal) things, a background check won't show it. Take, for example, the "sending nude pics to the athlete" coach. In his state, he's being charged. In my state, they couldn't charge him for that. There's no precedent. So if this occurred in my state, he wouldn't have a record and a gym owner might unwittingly hire a creep that tip toes on the line of decent and perv.
Don't think it needs to be an investigative branch of the USASF or anything, just a database where a gym can look up to see if complaints (any complaints, really,) have been made against a potential staff member. Maybe listing how many complaints, excluding what the complaint is for. If I was a business owner looking to hire, someone with 1 complaint might be looked at differently than someone with 10 complaints, even if I don't know the exact reason. And gyms should be required to post the complaint "hotline" (or whatever) info just like they have to post minimum wage guidelines and OSHA stuff.

 

[XtremeWpg]

Your training process is not the norm. I would be supportive of a process that you say you went through. Even if the score sheets are different this shows me (a coach/gym owner, clarify, I'm a coach NOT a gym owner, gym owners are all crazy LOL JK) you can recognize the appropriate skills so IMO (even though I am strongly FOR a Universal score sheet) at least this process shows at least SOME knowledge and recognition. I would like to attend a clinic like this just to see what judges actually have to go through. I think the complaints of poor judging have increased the NEED for a better system although I'll always push for more. IMO, ultimately as long as gyms keep going back to poorly produced/judged events, they will still exist and they will continue to do the bare minimum.

In our clinic we go through each section of each sheet. We "open book judge" so to speak on videos and have discussions about why we marked skills/routines how we did. Our Judging Coordinator also highlights rule loopholes to watch for in all levels and any changes made to the rules

We saw a huge overhaul here this year with the introduction of Cheer Canada . They're offering a single score system/rubric/ratio grid for Canada, and it's the system that the association I judge for in Manitoba uses and we practiced it endlessly. I still practice in my own time!

I used to coach, be an athlete, and run an Open level 6 team, so I have an appreciation for how poor or inconsistant judging directly impacts teams!! And I don't want to be one of "those" judges!

 

[yojaehs]

In our clinic we go through each section of each sheet. We "open book judge" so to speak on videos and have discussions about why we marked skills/routines how we did. Our Judging Coordinator also highlights rule loopholes to watch for in all levels and any changes made to the rules

We saw a huge overhaul here this year with the introduction of Cheer Canada . They're offering a single score system/rubric/ratio grid for Canada, and it's the system that the association I judge for in Manitoba uses and we practiced it endlessly. I still practice in my own time!

I used to coach, be an athlete, and run an Open level 6 team, so I have an appreciation for how poor or inconsistant judging directly impacts teams!! And I don't want to be one of "those" judges!

Which score sheet do y'all use?

 

[XtremeWpg]

Which score sheet do y'all use?

They're issued by Cheer Canada
http://cms.cheercanada.net/index.php/en/scoringsystem

That's the link to the sheets and the difficulty grids and execution rubrics

 

[yojaehs]

They're issued by Cheer Canada
http://cms.cheercanada.net/index.php/en/scoringsystem

That's the link to the sheets and the difficulty grids and execution rubrics

Wow, I'm not a fan of the breakdown of the score sheet, favoritism towards stunting much!? lol. Well at least it's a system yall are sticking to and training towards.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I'm adding a question to the discussion (Because this is MY thread and nobody eats my casserole):
Since a main priority seems to be straightening out the USASF, what is it you would like them to do? Be more like USAG or a comparable governing body? Just deal with Worlds and we create a different governing body (USCF- US Cheer Federation lol).. Also- would you be willing to pay more in membership fees (not sure how much is paid now, if anything) if it meant more people would be hired and more would be accomplished?

 

[Coach Troy]

As a judge, how do you want the USASF to qualify someone to judge? How many different score sheets are there, and we're all to be trained on all of them? I know for where I judge, each fall we take a judging clinic and have to take an exam (judging a YouTube video in the areas we wish to judge ie-building skills & tosses, deductions, choreo etc). But we only use 1 score sheet.

Essentially, until you have a consistant *single* score sheet for all EPs, to have exact consistancy in judging is virtually impossible.

I am less concerned about a score sheet and more on the judges knowing the proper progressions of skills and how to rank thier difficulty.
My training system would involve a break down of technical skills per level so that teams are given a proper start value based on the skills in thier routine. Judges need to be aware of this if they ever hope to apply the rubric's that already exist correctly.

 

[INeverStopCheering]

Cheerleader and Coach:
1. The rest of my posts kind of depend on this. A more legitimate governing body that is recognized as the be-all-end-all. I think the USASF is getting there, but I think there are a lot of areas they should police more closely and do not. I think there should be clear sets of policies and what exactly happens to you if you do not follow them. I think gyms should have to be USASF certified to compete at USASF events. Want to compete at good competitions? Then get your coaches' acts together, and get certified. While this doesn't take care of "rogue" programs or competitions, I think the issue would take care of itself when parents start pulling their kids.
2. I know everyone has said this, but unified scoresheets. It's back to having a legitimate legal system. I think the USASF needs to make up a scoresheet. If you want to remain a USASF Competition, you use their scoresheets. Want to give bids to worlds? Use their scoresheets. The whole system we have now is abso-freakin-loutly ridiculous and could be overhauled if the USASF would step up and wear the pants in this cheer family. I know that certain styles of scoresheet make a competition more desireable to some gyms, but it's time to put selfish business interests aside and get this sport together.
3. Judges training. I am so tired of being judged by an administrator at my high school who also happens to be the cheer coach. What on Earth could she POSSIBLY know about Allstar cheer? I think judges should have to go through safety training, as well as extensive explanation of the new unified scoresheet. Safety Judges should have to be even more well trained. They should know those rules inside and out.
4. A USASF "event official" on hand at all competitions. This is a big one to me. I see a lot of unsafe activities in warm-ups, parking lots, and back hall ways. This person is a USASF official, assigned by the USASF, not employed by the EP and then trained. This way they have little loyalty to the event they are policing. Their job is to make sure that the first paragraph of the rules are enforced. No stunting on concrete, no jewelry, etc. etc. They should also be a dispute decider. Coach wants to dispute a judge over a deduction, it's brought to this person. Dispute over illegality, it's brought to this person. It could end a lot of the hard feelings between coaches and events about scoring and illegalities.
5. Open View Scoresheets. This is a digital age. There is absolutely no reason why a EP can not post on the internet a scoring breakdown of every team, other than laziness. It is so confusing to continually get beat by teams who you perceive to be better than. I.e. your stunts are harder, your motions are tighter etc. etc. I want to see exactly where my kids got beat, or in turn, what they did really good at. I don't know if I think it should be open to the public, because if one team got really low scores it might make for an uncomfortable situation. But all it takes is creating a private page and giving coaches the password.

 

[chyeeaaa69]

I think Penn and Teller summed up a lot of the issues quite well.
As a fan who's intending to get back in the sport:
- universal scoresheet
- better qualifications for coaches (just so everyone's aware, I went through 4 full day training courses to be able to coach gymnastics at the lowest level, and that's not even inverting.)
- athlete registration. although faking birth certificates is possible, I think all athletes participating in Varsity sanctioned events, or if some other company began governing most competitions, should be certified eligible (for example: age) before being allowed to compete.
- one TRUE nationals, that you have to qualify for. I understand that this is far from happening, but still. In the episode of Penn and Teller (which was a few years ago I might add) they mentioned that there were SIXTY FOUR National competitions. Last time I checked, in most sports, there's ONE National competition. I'm glad we have one "Worlds," but I seriously think the American participation in Worlds needs to be more limited. That's a rant I'm not gonna go into on here. To truly make it a Worlds, there needs to be a limitation of how many from one country qualify to go.

When people are saying that USASF is getting close to being a universal governing body, don't they mean Varsity? I am just going off of information seen in the Penn and Teller episode, but Varsity owns USASF correct? (sorry if this is a dumb question)

 

[chyeeaaa69]

They're issued by Cheer Canada
http://cms.cheercanada.net/index.php/en/scoringsystem

That's the link to the sheets and the difficulty grids and execution rubrics

Has this been adapted yet by all competition companies? (not that there are many)