All-Star The Majors Updates

[a_cheer_leaderxo]

There hasn't been any mention of it other than from Jamfest Europe on their facebook a bit ago...I wouldn't bet on anyone coming!

Yeah I noticed the lack of mention too! Oh well, it will save me a six hour trip during exam season haha!

 

[Anna-grace]

I can't find a video of the Superkats, what inspirational kids! does anyone have a link? None of the YouTube channels that uploaded majors videos uploaded one

 

[crazyredhead]

Ok cali coed with that dance I see you.. So happy for ACES after how bad showcase was Im so happy they came back and won. Also Becca's tumbling is boss.

 

[King]

"How in the world does a tie happen?"

Two teams get the same score. They have no published tie-breaking system that I am aware of. It may not be satisfying to everyone who was watching, but if they get the same score, what else are you supposed to do? Ties are not necessarily a fault of the system or a sign of political maneuverings. Sometimes it just works out that way.

Judges can award points down to .1. Ties are not common, but they are statistically likely to pop up from time to time. I am not privy to Cali's scoresheets, but I would assume that CA outscored them in some areas, and they outscored us in others and it balanced out in the long run.

It is worth noting that Jam Brands, Varsity, and Worlds all have dramatically different scoresheets. Each has intricacies that reward the teams that pay attention to the rubric and the grid. The more times we attend each, the more we learn - and the more we realize how much we still have to learn. I know that we made significant changes to routines specifically to fit the Jam Brand scoresheet that we think really helped our scores, but we also learned some things that will hopefully help us next season (assuming we are invited again.)

I was surprised to see all of the drama here about large coed, because there didn't seem to be any between the actual teams. They both seemed genuinely excited about the result. I know both sets of coaches seemed happy as well.

I have no information or opinion about the legalities for CEA.

I think any drama on here is be the fact there wasn't a winner. While people have their preference, overall not having a winner is very hard for a fan (I wasn't excited about a tie). With only 3 teams it seems really weird there was just a 'tie'. I don't think, in general, most had an issue with the teams themselves. A tie is just so unsatisfying!

 

[BlueCat]

I think any drama on here is be the fact there wasn't a winner. While people have their preference, overall not having a winner is very hard for a fan (I wasn't excited about a tie). With only 3 teams it seems really weird there was just a 'tie'. I don't think, in general, most had an issue with the teams themselves. A tie is just so unsatisfying!

I can understand why fans are disappointed with the announcement of a tie. I also understand that many would want the judges to go back after scores were tallied and have one of the judges change a score on their original scoresheet to break the tie. My point was that accusing them of rigging the system to force a tie simply to keep more programs happy is unfair based solely on the fact that two teams end up with the same score.

I agree that it is statistically unlikely that two teams happen to get the exact same score (It "seems really weird"). That probability is not zero, however - especially when judges are really only working within probably 3 or 4 different numerical values they can give for each category for upper-level teams. (.7, .8, .9, 1.0 on top of the theoretical range.) My incredibly non-scientific observation is that it seems to happen about as often as you would expect it to. (It is rare, but not shockingly rare.)

Varsity and Worlds have in place automatic tie-breakers that kick in if the final scores end up equal. (I believe Varsity is the day two score, Worlds is fewest deductions.) They publish those in advance. To my knowledge, Jam Brands does not. If they do, and it is based on one of the days like Varsity, then that wouldn't apply to a one-shot competition. My guess is that next season, they will have a tie-break in place to avoid this scenario happening again.

I didn't get to see Cali's performance, and I am too biased to give a fair opinion of Cheetahs'. I have no idea who "really should have won". All of this is just based on assumptions of the way I think the scoring works.

 

[luv2cheer92]

I think any drama on here is be the fact there wasn't a winner. While people have their preference, overall not having a winner is very hard for a fan (I wasn't excited about a tie). With only 3 teams it seems really weird there was just a 'tie'. I don't think, in general, most had an issue with the teams themselves. A tie is just so unsatisfying!

I agree that a lot of people are upset about the tie, but I feel like there are a lot of people that are just mad that their team lost. I can understand it, it is hard to see your favorite team lose, but sometimes you just gotta respect the judge's opinions and move on and be happy for those that won. Not every team can win every competition. Being mad about it and saying so and so should have won isn't going to change anything, it just makes you look like a bitter person. IMO (not talking to you at all kingston, just going off what you said)

 

[Jennie]

saw on cheerUpdates that Cheer Extreme Coed Elite and Senior Elite both received a 2.5 point penalty for their pyramids. I don't think CEA will be too happy with JamBrands at this moment in time...

 

[cndesaus]

saw on cheerUpdates that Cheer Extreme Coed Elite and Senior Elite both received a 2.5 point penalty for their pyramids. I don't think CEA will be too happy with JamBrands at this moment in time...

i thought it could have been for the helicopters

 

[King]

I can understand why fans are disappointed with the announcement of a tie. I also understand that many would want the judges to go back after scores were tallied and have one of the judges change a score on their original scoresheet to break the tie. My point was that accusing them of rigging the system to force a tie simply to keep more programs happy is unfair based solely on the fact that two teams end up with the same score.

I agree that it is statistically unlikely that two teams happen to get the exact same score (It "seems really weird"). That probability is not zero, however - especially when judges are really only working within probably 3 or 4 different numerical values they can give for each category for upper-level teams. (.7, .8, .9, 1.0 on top of the theoretical range.) My incredibly non-scientific observation is that it seems to happen about as often as you would expect it to. (It is rare, but not shockingly rare.)

Varsity and Worlds have in place automatic tie-breakers that kick in if the final scores end up equal. (I believe Varsity is the day two score, Worlds is fewest deductions.) They publish those in advance. To my knowledge, Jam Brands does not. If they do, and it is based on one of the days like Varsity, then that wouldn't apply to a one-shot competition. My guess is that next season, they will have a tie-break in place to avoid this scenario happening again.

I didn't get to see Cali's performance, and I am too biased to give a fair opinion of Cheetahs'. I have no idea who "really should have won". All of this is just based on assumptions of the way I think the scoring works.

I agree that a lot of people are upset about the tie, but I feel like there are a lot of people that are just mad that their team lost. I can understand it, it is hard to see your favorite team lose, but sometimes you just gotta respect the judge's opinions and move on and be happy for those that won. Not every team can win every competition. Being mad about it and saying so and so should have won isn't going to change anything, it just makes you look like a bitter person. IMO (not talking to you at all kingston, just going off what you said)

I think my problem with the situation is if you have a score that produces a tie people are going to get upset. People will get upset when their team doesn't lose, but ties make people think there is something fishy going on AND not publishing the scoresheets also make people think something fishy is going on. Which for all the complaining about one scoring system when you have multiple scoring systems they each have to go through the painful process of becoming mature (figuring out how to handle ties, distributing scores so people think its fair.... ). And now the highly avoidable conspiracy theories float around. In my eyes it just proved why Jamfest shouldn't have a separate scoresheet.

And to the legality piece the Majors is sanctioned under the USASF. If they abide by USASF rules (and the competition can still choose not to enforce the rule at this point, yes? If true it was Jamfest who said the legality should stand) then the legality was correct.

 

[cheeeeer93]

saw on cheerUpdates that Cheer Extreme Coed Elite and Senior Elite both received a 2.5 point penalty for their pyramids. I don't think CEA will be too happy with JamBrands at this moment in time...

Why would the be mad at JamBrands? CSP puts out routines (especially pyramids) that are so close to the rules, and even grey area, that there is a certain degree of risk when it comes to legalities. Sure she might study the rules day after day but in such a subjective sport some rules are up to interpretation, like the helicopters. I can easily see where there would be a discrepancy. So why would CSP be mad at JamBrands? For recognizing a legality they have not competed at all? They're just doing their jobs and I'm sure CEA has accepted that.

 

[Nikaa]

i'm so glad Panthers are finally BACK! I don't care if they just add 8 stunts. As long as they can hit it perfectly, everything looks just perfectly fine for me ;) Go BABS!!

If I remember corectly they had a stunt fall?

 

[CEA_ATC]

Why would the be mad at JamBrands? CSP puts out routines (especially pyramids) that are so close to the rules, and even grey area, that there is a certain degree of risk when it comes to legalities. Sure she might study the rules day after day but in such a subjective sport some rules are up to interpretation, like the helicopters. I can easily see where there would be a discrepancy. So why would CSP be mad at JamBrands? For recognizing a legality they have not competed at all? They're just doing their jobs and I'm sure CEA has accepted that.

I think that IS the problem. If it is going to be illegal, then THE RULES SHOULD ALREADY DAY SO. Otherwise, if you deem something illegal only AFTER it has been performed, then you are making it up as you go along, which can't be considered fair. Playing in the grey area should not be penalized if a stunt has not been deemed illegal before. Doing it the way this was done is not the best way. The only fair answer is a "you got us this time, but next time you cant, because the rules have changed".... Or, to simply make it legal, but very detailed in the rule book.

 

[cheeeeer93]

I think that IS the problem. If it is going to be illegal, then THE RULES SHOULD ALREADY DAY SO. Otherwise, if you deem something illegal only AFTER it has been performed, then you are making it up as you go along, which can't be considered fair. Playing in the grey area should not be penalized if a stunt has not been deemed illegal before. Doing it the way this was done is not the best way. The only fair answer is a "you got us this time, but next time you cant, because the rules have changed".... Or, to simply make it legal, but very detailed in the rule book.

Disregarding the skill itself, there wasn't a head catcher. That's the real problem I see.

 

[Jennie]

Why would the be mad at JamBrands? CSP puts out routines (especially pyramids) that are so close to the rules, and even grey area, that there is a certain degree of risk when it comes to legalities. Sure she might study the rules day after day but in such a subjective sport some rules are up to interpretation, like the helicopters. I can easily see where there would be a discrepancy. So why would CSP be mad at JamBrands? For recognizing a legality they have not competed at all? They're just doing their jobs and I'm sure CEA has accepted that.

I never once said in my post the letters CSP. I said CEA which could refer to anyone in any of the CEA gyms - coaches, athletes or parents. I can guarantee you that at least one member of CEA is a little bit salty towards JamBrands in light of the deductions. So next time please read the comment properly before you post.

 

[cheernerd5678]

I think that IS the problem. If it is going to be illegal, then THE RULES SHOULD ALREADY DAY SO. Otherwise, if you deem something illegal only AFTER it has been performed, then you are making it up as you go along, which can't be considered fair. Playing in the grey area should not be penalized if a stunt has not been deemed illegal before. Doing it the way this was done is not the best way. The only fair answer is a "you got us this time, but next time you cant, because the rules have changed".... Or, to simply make it legal, but very detailed in the rule book.

They didn't just make up a rule though. The rule already said that what they did was illegal. The rule that we *think* was violated has been posted and the place where it was most likely violated was found. CEA has routines that push the limits, and maybe she interpreted the rule differently than the judge, but at the end of the day our interpretation doesn't matter, the Judges does, because we aren't the ones scoring the routine. They are.