All-Star The Majors Updates

[XtremeWpg]

I think that IS the problem. If it is going to be illegal, then THE RULES SHOULD ALREADY DAY SO. Otherwise, if you deem something illegal only AFTER it has been performed, then you are making it up as you go along, which can't be considered fair. Playing in the grey area should not be penalized if a stunt has not been deemed illegal before. Doing it the way this was done is not the best way. The only fair answer is a "you got us this time, but next time you cant, because the rules have changed".... Or, to simply make it legal, but very detailed in the rule book.

That's the risk in playing in the grey area. And I'm sure CSP and CEA, while not thrilled with this outcome, understand the risks of doing so.

 

[cheeeeer93]

I never once said in my post the letters CSP. I said CEA which could refer to anyone in any of the CEA gyms - coaches, athletes or parents. I can guarantee you that at least one member of CEA is a little bit salty towards JamBrands in light of the deductions. So next time please read the comment properly before you post.

No need for the sass. I saw it said CEA but I saw it as the CEA staff you were talking about. Just a simple misunderstanding. Anyways, CSP is generally the person who studies the rules and puts those skills in. She is also the person who was at the judges table for a big portion of the night discussing legalities so yeah, that's what I thought you mean. Sorry.

 

[CEA_ATC]

They didn't just make up a rule though. The rule already said that what they did was illegal. The rule that we *think* was violated has been posted and the place where it was most likely violated was found. CEA has routines that push the limits, and maybe she interpreted the rule differently than the judge, but at the end of the day our interpretation doesn't matter, the Judges does, because we aren't the ones scoring the routine. They are.

If is about the catch, then I agree. If it is about the two 180 degree turns on different axes (as some were speculating) then I think they made up a new one.... Since the rule book doesn't really outlaw that... Yet.

 

[AndrewSky]

Just heard that senior elites deduction was for not having someone catch the head/top area in the helicopters.

 

[AllstarErin]

It's most likely about the catch and that quite clearly brakes the rule. I think every coach out there has been in this situation at least once and its not a nice feeling. Better here then worlds though!

 

[luv2cheer92]

If is about the catch, then I agree. If it is about the two 180 degree turns on different axes (as some were speculating) then I think they made up a new one.... Since the rule book doesn't really outlaw that... Yet.

I'm pretty sure it has to be how they catch, because last year Top Gun Large Coed did essentially the same thing in their pyramid with a half flip and half spin, but they started prone and ended in a cradle, therefore having someone catching the head.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

I have not read the whole thread closely so forgive me if I missed this discussion.

Sometimes you win when you lose, especially if you lose with class. That said, I'm sure the rules were enforced correctly. My question is not about this but whether or not this sets a precedent? Has someone always been monitoring the routines at USASF? If so, was this a first for them? Has anyone seen this before? When? Did the coaches know the routines were being monitored for legalities and do they approve of that system? Are we to assume that all routines at all USASF sanctioned competitions are now to be monitored for legalities, safety, score, whatever the industry deems appropriate by USASF? Is there a system for appeal real time? How does it function?

As I say, sometimes when you lose you win. This will help CEA and let me say straight up you have a bunch of kids ready to work really hard the rest of the year to perfect their routines. If I were a coach, I think that may be a perfect storm of motivation. I think they will win by losing.

But more importantly, could this become a new standard of evaluation, monitoring and perfecting all aspects of the sport? Will it lead to better judging, results, outcomes and advancement of the sport? If so, and I think we can all see the benefits and the potential problems of this sort of thing, but maybe we all won a little last night.

 

[njallday]

I have not read the whole thread closely so forgive me if I missed this discussion.

Sometimes you win when you lose, especially if you lose with class. That said, I'm sure the rules were enforced correctly. My question is not about this but whether or not this sets a precedent? Has someone always been monitoring the routines at USASF? If so, was this a first for them? Has anyone seen this before? When? Did the coaches know the routines were being monitored for legalities and do they approve of that system? Are we to assume that all routines at all USASF sanctioned competitions are now to be monitored for legalities, safety, score, whatever the industry deems appropriate by USASF? Is there a system for appeal real time? How does it function?

As I say, sometimes when you lose you win. This will help CEA and let me say straight up you have a bunch of kids ready to work really hard the rest of the year to perfect their routines. If I were a coach, I think that may be a perfect storm of motivation. I think they will win by losing.

But more importantly, could this become a new standard of evaluation, monitoring and perfecting all aspects of the sport? Will it lead to better judging, results, outcomes and advancement of the sport? If so, and I think we can all see the benefits and the potential problems of this sort of thing, but maybe we all won a little last night.

i think an outside judge monitoring routines is a step in the right direction for where judging needs to be. i wholeheartedly love and agree with kingston 's idea with judges in another room with a video feed. it allows for less mistakes and inconsistencies in scoring.

however, i think this is an "isolated event" for USASF. this weekend alone there are 5 large nationals occurring all over the country with 13 paid/partials and 29 at large bids on the line. it would be very difficult for the USASF to be everywhere at the same time. (and this isn't including the hundreds of lower level teams, too)

was "the call" from USASF from someone who was physically present at the majors? or were they home watching a live feed or looking at videos?

 

[King]

i think an outside judge monitoring routines is a step in the right direction for where judging needs to be. i wholeheartedly love and agree with kingston 's idea with judges in another room with a video feed. it allows for less mistakes and inconsistencies in scoring.

however, i think this is an "isolated event" for USASF. this weekend alone there are 5 large nationals occurring all over the country with 13 paid/partials and 29 at large bids on the line. it would be very difficult for the USASF to be everywhere at the same time. (and this isn't including the hundreds of lower level teams, too)

was "the call" from USASF from someone who was physically present at the majors? or were they home watching a live feed or looking at videos?

Les Stella was there and made the call. If he said it was illegal, it is illegal. No one higher than him for rules. As for calling legalities I think any cheer event hosted by Jamfest, as long as they are members of the USASF, follow USASF rules. But, again, the EP themselves can choose to enforce the rules. The USASF cannot make the legality stick (unless something changed recently).

 

[njallday]

Les Stella was there and made the call. If he said it was illegal, it is illegal. No one higher than him for rules. As for calling legalities I think any cheer event hosted by Jamfest, as long as they are members of the USASF, follow USASF rules. But, again, the EP themselves can choose to enforce the rules. The USASF cannot make the legality stick (unless something changed recently).

thanks for the clarification! the way some were speaking of it made it sound like Les was not on site and actually called JAMfest about the legalities. (now that I write that I realize how silly it sounds/how gullible i may be )

 

[Cheeranswers]

about the legality. this is the rule:
Helicopters are allowed up to a 180 degree rotation and must be caught by at least 3 catchers, one of which is positioned at head and shoulder area of the top person.
Now, watch the video. Do you see a single person catching the helicopter at the head and shoulder area? No, there is no one there. Therefore, it is illegal. I dont get any speculation there. I have seen many teams get 10 points in deductions for legality, and since they had FIVE groups doing it, in my opinion I think they're lucky they ONLY got 2.5 points in deductions. Its not a hidden or "made up" rule, its right there

 

[kaylalalaxo]

I have not read the whole thread closely so forgive me if I missed this discussion.

Sometimes you win when you lose, especially if you lose with class. That said, I'm sure the rules were enforced correctly. My question is not about this but whether or not this sets a precedent? Has someone always been monitoring the routines at USASF? If so, was this a first for them? Has anyone seen this before? When? Did the coaches know the routines were being monitored for legalities and do they approve of that system? Are we to assume that all routines at all USASF sanctioned competitions are now to be monitored for legalities, safety, score, whatever the industry deems appropriate by USASF? Is there a system for appeal real time? How does it function?

As I say, sometimes when you lose you win. This will help CEA and let me say straight up you have a bunch of kids ready to work really hard the rest of the year to perfect their routines. If I were a coach, I think that may be a perfect storm of motivation. I think they will win by losing.

But more importantly, could this become a new standard of evaluation, monitoring and perfecting all aspects of the sport? Will it lead to better judging, results, outcomes and advancement of the sport? If so, and I think we can all see the benefits and the potential problems of this sort of thing, but maybe we all won a little last night.

This. As much as I pushed for Senior Elite to win, this may have gotten that fire under their belles started into a big ball of flame, and come NCA and Worlds, they'll have that motivation, to become an even better team. This may have been just what they needed to give them that extra push for the future competitions they're approaching (not that it was needed for them in the first place, but I hope y'all get my idea). Teal army for life<3

 

[xpressjag]

After watching all the large coed teams I can understand why ca cheetahs won even with a fall. They are incredible in every sense of the word..

 

[acheer]

So is it only the winners that receive the majors medals? If so how did they know to order so many to give each athlete from all 4 teams?

 

[FamousMatty]

I am sorry but a lot of the banter going on about this situation is ridiculous. I had a team two years ago that lost by .1 because of a 2 point legality deduction. The judges did not catch it, the coach of the opposing team did and brought it to the judges attention. Was I sad for the loss? Of course. But I certainly did not question the system simply because a legality was caught by someone other than a judge. Something broke the rules (unintentionally) and thus the consequence was paid. The athletes of these teams certainly know how to loose with class...how come parents and fans cannot? If the situation was reversed, those of you questioning "the system" would be the same ones praising it for working in your favor. It is over, the teams that won deserved it and those that lost...lost for legitimate reasons. Read the rules, if you have a question ask, and just because a skill didn't get caught at another competition doesn't mean it's legal. CEA fans (not athletes and staff) have a tendency to steal the thunder when any team other than their favorite wins. There is always an excuse, and some miraculous story of "love and inspiration that is going to bring them back to their former glory that is birthed from the ashes of a loss." I am sure these athletes were, are, and are going to continue to be motivated to get better and better with each performance. Why don't we let their season speak for itself...