All-Star Transparency In Scoring And Allstar Cheerleading

[MissBee]

IIRC BlueCat brought this up a week or so ago about having two divisions. In his example it was a Worlds division and a Nationals division. That gyms would be able to choose at the beginning of the year which division they wanted to compete in for the year. It would allow gyms to choose their division based on their individual program needs and goals. This same concept has been spoken of on the boards as a D1 and D2 concept. I copied his post here:

Under the current system, I don't think that teams should have a choice if teams are split into large/small gym divisions.

That being said, I would implement a different system for splitting gyms. I would have two classifications that are self-selected by the gym at the beginning of each season. (need better names, but I'll use "World League" and "National League" for demonstration purposes.)

World League (the "upper" level) gyms are eligible for Worlds bids. "National League" gyms are not. The idea would be that most large gyms would pick World League for themselves. Most small gyms would not (but would have the option to if they chose.) Default would be National. (You are defined as "national" unless you declare with USASF by a certain date.)

If the EPs chose, they may split divisions into "World" and "National" if and only if there are 7 or more teams total AND the resulting split would leave at least 2 teams in each division.

Gyms would NOT be able to change "leagues" mid-season. All of a program's teams compete in the same league.

PROS:
gyms get to pick their own league/classification each year.
strong small gyms (or weak large gyms) can choose to compete against similarly competitive teams
forced declaration by a certain date helps ensure that Worlds gyms are registered with USASF
No need to define (or attempt to verify) enrollment/size
Fairly simple for EPs to administer.

CONS:
Unorganized gyms could find themselves ineligible for Worlds
We need different names for the "leagues" or divisions.

This is nothing that is officially in the works as far as I know. Just ideas we were throwing around.

I love this idea! That way the Level 5 teams that are just starting out don't get blown away by the F5's and Shooting Stars of the world.

 

[kristenthegreat]

As a basis, I'd like transparency. No judges comments, but I'll take Total Scores, Raw Scores vs. deductions, and score breakdowns by category (including skill and execution points). That would be lovely, thank you.

I would like to know why one person voted 'No.' Although perhaps they don't want to admit to that..but the only reason I could think of saying 'No' is that you don't want your super-secret trade formula for success out. Or as a parent, you might want to be protected from the harsh reality that your gym isn't scoring well on sections and having that be public. Although really, it tends to be kinda obvious either way. When SE's score at Worlds '10 were a good number of points ahead, it wasn't difficult to see what gave them that extra edge. Low and behold, the scores were closer in '11 because the other teams adjusted. Good coaches will make good decisions and bad will make bad decisions.

 

[SarahS]

Just an honest question here: why so much opposition to judges' comments being made public, too? I guess my perspective as a coach is that I've never had a comment that was somehow so personal that I wouldn't want it out in the public.

 

[CGAcheer]

IIRC BlueCat brought this up a week or so ago about having two divisions. In his example it was a Worlds division and a Nationals division. That gyms would be able to choose at the beginning of the year which division they wanted to compete in for the year. It would allow gyms to choose their division based on their individual program needs and goals. This same concept has been spoken of on the boards as a D1 and D2 concept. I copied his post here:

Under the current system, I don't think that teams should have a choice if teams are split into large/small gym divisions.

That being said, I would implement a different system for splitting gyms. I would have two classifications that are self-selected by the gym at the beginning of each season. (need better names, but I'll use "World League" and "National League" for demonstration purposes.)

World League (the "upper" level) gyms are eligible for Worlds bids. "National League" gyms are not. The idea would be that most large gyms would pick World League for themselves. Most small gyms would not (but would have the option to if they chose.) Default would be National. (You are defined as "national" unless you declare with USASF by a certain date.)

If the EPs chose, they may split divisions into "World" and "National" if and only if there are 7 or more teams total AND the resulting split would leave at least 2 teams in each division.

Gyms would NOT be able to change "leagues" mid-season. All of a program's teams compete in the same league.

PROS:
gyms get to pick their own league/classification each year.
strong small gyms (or weak large gyms) can choose to compete against similarly competitive teams
forced declaration by a certain date helps ensure that Worlds gyms are registered with USASF
No need to define (or attempt to verify) enrollment/size
Fairly simple for EPs to administer.

CONS:
Unorganized gyms could find themselves ineligible for Worlds
We need different names for the "leagues" or divisions.

This is nothing that is officially in the works as far as I know. Just ideas we were throwing around.

I can only speak to my area, but you can already kind of do this with your competition choices. If you don't want to compete with top tier teams, don't go to top tier competitions. If you do want to compete with the best go to the bigger competitions.

The only true advantage that I can honestly say and BlueCat would probably agree that a program like his has over a team like mine is due to just the sheer number of teams is the ability to fully compare score sheets across more teams. He has the ability to look at the score sheets from his for example Large Jr 2, small Sr 2, large youth 2 and small jr 2 and assuming they all hit, pick out which particular skills score highest, was it the half up to extension or the half up to prep level stretch or the hand stand up to extension that scores the highest

 

[tumbleyoda]

The funny thing is that most large gyms think they are judged more harshly because of the expectations that they judges may have. I guess everything depends on your perspective.

I agree with that.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I can only speak to my area, but you can already kind of do this with your competition choices. If you don't want to compete with top tier teams, don't go to top tier competitions. If you do want to compete with the best go to the bigger competitions.

The only true advantage that I can honestly say and BlueCat would probably agree that a program like his has over a team like mine is due to just the sheer number of teams is the ability to fully compare score sheets across more teams. He has the ability to look at the score sheets from his for example Large Jr 2, small Sr 2, large youth 2 and small jr 2 and assuming they all hit, pick out which particular skills score highest, was it the half up to extension or the half up to prep level stretch or the hand stand up to extension that scores the highest

We do currently do this, but for smaller programs cost to fly to major competitions is an issue. By the time you add in hotel expenses, entry fees, etc if you can do one big competition a year that in itself is a major accomplishment.

 

[NEliteSteven]

Just an honest question here: why so much opposition to judges' comments being made public, too? I guess my perspective as a coach is that I've never had a comment that was somehow so personal that I wouldn't want it out in the public.

The comment could be directed to a girl/boy getting raunchy in the dance. That's kind of embarrassing...maybe you wouldn't want something like that public? Just throwing out a scenario.

 

[NJ Coach]

Just an honest question here: why so much opposition to judges' comments being made public, too? I guess my perspective as a coach is that I've never had a comment that was somehow so personal that I wouldn't want it out in the public.

The judges comments have no impact on the scoring of the division. I could care less about what a judge wrote on another teams scoresheet, and I'm sure they don't care about mine. I would like to see their scores and deductions though, because that will tell me where I stand across all sections of the scoresheet in comparison. Me showing you a comment that states my team has great energy, or needs pointed toes in their jumps doesn't help you (honestly doesn't do much for me either but that's another story). I only want to see what helps me.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

IIRC BlueCat brought this up a week or so ago about having two divisions. In his example it was a Worlds division and a Nationals division. .

Ahh, yes. I remember that post. BlueCat, always thinkin

 

[DJ]

Can you imagine what type of Fierceboard document system we would need to have scores posted up for comparison.
Yikes!

 

[tumbleyoda]

Can you imagine what type of Fierceboard document system we would need to have scores posted up for comparison.
Yikes!

kingston probably already has it done and filed away; ready to be updated and used whenever the time is right.

 

[DJ]

kingston probably already has it done and filed away; ready to be updated and used whenever the time is right.

I could imagine the coding would be exhaustive.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I could imagine the coding would be exhaustive.

True. But you would have never thought we would of come from ProX to this too.

 

[cupieqt]

Just an honest question here: why so much opposition to judges' comments being made public, too? I guess my perspective as a coach is that I've never had a comment that was somehow so personal that I wouldn't want it out in the public.

For me it's about keeping our skills that the judges like the most close to the vest. I'm not going to broadcast the elements that are scoring the high points for us bc then everyone would do it. This year we have gotten the same comments from every judge about a particular skill my srs do that they love. Sure, people can prob figure it out but as of now it could be any number of things and the coaches from other teams need to figure it out on their own. I don't get paid to do their choreography too.

 

[King]

Coding and the system aren't hard. It's finding ways for people to do it OR have it automatically done and accepted by the EPs. nothing technologically done in cheerleading is all that mind blowing.