All-Star Us Allstar Alliance: New Divisions?

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BlueCat

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I feel that people generally want divisions that just barely work for the specific situations at their gyms. The problem is that we now have so many divisions that teams end up competing against maybe 1-2 teams at most of the events throughout the season. We have "recitals" and not competitions more often than not. It may mean more "winners" short term, but I think it is bad for the industry in the long run.

I have seen many awards sessions with 20 teams where only 1 or 2 of them don't "win."
 

MissCongeniality

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I feel that people generally want divisions that just barely work for the specific situations at their gyms. The problem is that we now have so many divisions that teams end up competing against maybe 1-2 teams at most of the events throughout the season. We have "recitals" and not competitions more often than not. It may mean more "winners" short term, but I think it is bad for the industry in the long run.

I have seen many awards sessions with 20 teams where only 1 or 2 of them don't "win."
and then when there actually are quite a few teams in a division, they go and split it into 2, 3 even 4 smaller "divisions". Trophies for everyone! You! You and You! You're all "National Champions!"

Oh and I don't buy the "judges can't handle that many teams" line... If they can manage for Level 5 teams, they can for other divisions too.

1st place against nobody is also last ;)
 
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Think about all the under rotated fulls and doubles. Why don't they just go level 4? Well it would be even more dangerous to have under rotated double backs, and imagine Suzie's allstars pushing their athletes too far because they want to say they have a 5X team, even when it's a bad one, and will probably result in injuries.
 
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I feel like this whole change is taken out if context. I'm sure this business wouldn't have made the change if they thought it couldn't be help or would do more harm than good. I honestly think that this a good tool for small gyms! I actually think that's who it's mainly geared to. Could be wrong.
 

Mom2Cheergirls

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I disagree when it comes to the mini and youth divisions. Half the kids on Little RandomActs mini 1 team have level 2 tumbling skills but would not be capable of level 2 stunting. And the majority of Little RandomActs Y2 team are solid level 2 tumblers, but the team has struggled with the level 2 stunts all season. I think for both teams it is a base strength and flyer size issues (and attention-span/maturity for the minis). Little Random herself has level 3 tumbling skills but finds level 2 flying challenging. I think she will struggle if she is put on a L3 team next year. And I think there is a huge jump in skills going from level 2 to level 3 stunts (and level 1 to level 2 stunts for minis). These divisions could be beneficial in the mini and youth divisions. But I don't see a need for them in Junior or Senior divisions.

But I agree with @GreatWhite92. It seems strange to add divisions to accommodate maybe a handful of teams. And I seriously doubt many gyms will take advantage of these divisions if they are the only EP offering them.

Yes to all of this. I have been at or seen multiple gyms where they had minis capable of level 2 tumbling but were not truly ready to handle the level 2 stunting so then a smaller gym without a name will push them up to level 2 youth and have been at gyms with a strong mini 2 ready to be a mini 2. Youth I see it but not as much because you see to have more kids hitting growth spurts and so the size variance really starts to hit especially if the gym is lucky enough to have a variety of youth ages. I think often parents in particular loose sight that tumbling is not the end all and be all of a level. So while I think this could help retain for some gyms it would be better as an industry to educate parents and stand united as gyms to say we need to develop all around solid skills in our athletes before moving them up to the next level instead of creating new levels.
 
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and then when there actually are quite a few teams in a division, they go and split it into 2, 3 even 4 smaller "divisions". Trophies for everyone! You! You and You! You're all "National Champions!"

Oh and I don't buy the "judges can't handle that many teams" line... If they can manage for Level 5 teams, they can for other divisions too.

1st place against nobody is also last ;)

Tbh you can't compare judging levels 1-3 to level 4/5.

You really dont need to split level 4/5 just because i feel the difficulty is much more blatant and alot of teams may or may not be totally maxing out. You either have a full team doing level 5 skills or you dont.

For the most part.. every program has levels 1-3, and from what I've seen at these big competitions where they split the division..gyms are maxing out in difficulty, at at times technique, and working the score sheet.
 

Cheer Dad

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I feel like this whole change is taken out if context. I'm sure this business wouldn't have made the change if they thought it couldn't be help or would do more harm than good. I honestly think that this a good tool for small gyms! I actually think that's who it's mainly geared to. Could be wrong.
I think they are doing this thinking they'll make money from gyms that don't fair well in normal divisions and there is no thought on this being good or bad for the industry.

Maybe if will be good for the small gyms but I just don't see it.


**Silly owner, that's NOT how the big gyms really do it**
 
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SL&AM

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I feel like this whole change is taken out if context. I'm sure this business wouldn't have made the change if they thought it couldn't be help or would do more harm than good. I honestly think that this a good tool for small gyms! I actually think that's who it's mainly geared to. Could be wrong.

It's a business and businesses want money---even in the short term, businesses want money.
 
Jul 24, 2015
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I think they are doing this thinking they'll make money from gyms that don't fair well in normal divisions and there is no thought on this being good or bad for the industry.

Maybe if will be good for the small gyms but I just don't see it.


**Silly owner, that's NOT how the big gyms really do it**
I understand, but what I am saying is that many small gyms especially those who only have one or two teams many of their athetles have the tumbling but don't have the stunt skills or have the stunt skills and don't have the tumbling. Maybe I'm misunderstanding , but the way I see it it can be a perfect tool for small gyms with low number of teams as that seems to be issue excellent tumblers but low impact stunters and vice versa. I just don't see the harm.
 

Cheer Dad

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@dance_extreme_94 maybe it won't cause any harm but I'm not a fan of diluting the levels like this. This isn't even just diluting the levels this is creating new ones.

If gyms really wanted to try things like this entering competitions as a Exhibition team is always an option.

Bottom line though is I do not believe they are doing this to better the industry, they are doing it to get money in their pockets.


**Silly owner, that's NOT how the big gyms really do it**
 
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catlady

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I guess I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that US Allstar Alliance is not a part of Varsity and they are trying to find their own niche.

I understand why these smaller companies are starting to look outside the box. Again, I may be way off but, I thought Rec teams kind of followed the rules they are proposing and many small gyms have to build their teams with varying level athletes and level down to be competitive. Many say they don't like Varsity but, if they truly want these smaller companies to be successful, the industry is going to have to somewhat give them a pass and let them do what Varsity doesn't do, and let them concentrate and attract those that say Varsity doesn't work well for them. It's just my opinion but, I feel that's why Rebel is working, they didn't try to copy Varsity, they found their own niche with "edgier" uniforms.
 

HeyMom

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Yes to all of this. I have been at or seen multiple gyms where they had minis capable of level 2 tumbling but were not truly ready to handle the level 2 stunting so then a smaller gym without a name will push them up to level 2 youth and have been at gyms with a strong mini 2 ready to be a mini 2. Youth I see it but not as much because you see to have more kids hitting growth spurts and so the size variance really starts to hit especially if the gym is lucky enough to have a variety of youth ages. I think often parents in particular loose sight that tumbling is not the end all and be all of a level. So while I think this could help retain for some gyms it would be better as an industry to educate parents and stand united as gyms to say we need to develop all around solid skills in our athletes before moving them up to the next level instead of creating new levels.
Ding ding ding - we have a winner!!
 
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Unfortunately more and more competitions are not letting you exhibition, or if they do allow you to do so, they charge you exactly the same price as competing.

I also question if having a division of 10 plus teams for example where in reality only the top three have a true chance to win, is truly a competitive division of 20 teams. IMO it is a competitive division of 3 with 7 or more teams just there to make it look good. Just because you have a large number of teams doesn't automatically mean every team has a truly competitive chance at winning. I mean a few years ago we could of went Large Coed, got a bid and went to Worlds and got slaughtered. We had the amount of kids that year with enough core level 5 skills to make that team but no where was competitive with anyone in that division. Some gyms would of run the team anyway, because they would of been a big deal locally and potentially got a full paid bid just based on numbers of bids available. We couldn't do that and cut down to small coed where we had at least a better chance of looking like we belonged in the division.

I am not one for thinking you must win every competition. Far from it. I also don't think you drop $10,00.00 of your clients money to go to a competition knowing you are going to pick up your last place medal either. You need to be able to pick your battles. That is way harder now that one EP owns most of the other EP's. When raw scores for the top teams are above 96 and you are pushing to get a 93, that tells me that even if you hit and they miss, they would have to drop every stunt and part of a pyramid to even have a chance. And even then they will still be judged as better because they were more difficult than you. So I think there is nothing wrong in gyms finding competitions where they can at least feel competitive without risking athlete safety or jumping progressions to do so. Not winning but competitive. That is the key word.

I think it could be done without these new divisions, even though they do meet the needs of many small gyms. But we have already seen over the ears the reluctance of the industry to change things like unlimited crossovers, teams dropping two and three levels, recruiting etc. that truly hurt what small gyms can put together. Really all they needed to do was enforce these rules and have a Non Worlds division and D2 wouldn't even be necessary. But to do that would mean they would of financially undermined the plan of driving all teams/gyms to Worlds and now Summit which in the past they have shown no inclination of wanting to do that. There is way more money made in chasing that dream than in what is made at those events themselves.
 
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