All-Star Usasf Feedback

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

I knew I had at least one more

Limit the number of attempts a team can make to secure a Worlds bid.

I personally know of a team that went to FIVE different competitions to get their bid. Where else in life are you given a fifth chance after you've proven four times that you don't deserve it.

 

[CLynn]

I disagree even if some don't like to hear Boys and naturally stronger than girls stunting would be naturally easier for them also a larger team has more options to be creative and typically come from larger gyms where they have a larger group of athletes to choose from Maybe if the large has 3 teams competing and Small has 3 combined the division when the occurs but what's the point of having 30 teams in the same divisions when the larger team has a more likely chance to win because they have more to work with or a small team have the advantage of maybe having perfect full squad tumbling/timing because there is less people to work with

Well first that was just one example, and I can for sure see negatives about this type of system. But I've seen both large and small teams that are very creative and some that are not so creative. It might make some up their game actually if they think they will face more competition. Yes, I am thinking of scenarios where there might be 2-4 teams in each, not something like j3 which regularly has a ton of teams. But am still pondering other ideas or approaches to accomplish this...

 

[cheer25mom]

Well first that was just one example, and I can for sure see negatives about this type of system. But I've seen both large and small teams that are very creative and some that are not so creative. It might make some up their game actually if they think they will face more competition. Yes, I am thinking of scenarios where there might be 2-4 teams in each, not something like j3 which regularly has a ton of teams. But am still pondering other ideas or approaches to accomplish this...

My thing about the large/ small split is that mistakes hurt small teams exponentially more than large teams. When you have 3 stunt groups and 1 misses a skill 1/3 of your stunts didn't go. When you have 7 groups, only 1/7 missed a skill. It makes a HUGE difference in scores both in difficulty and technique. That's true across all areas of the scoresheet, a single omission is magnified the fewer athletes there are on the team. At some point that becomes an unequal playing field.


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[lisaceline12]

Something good - I am super happy that they took away baskets from Mini 2 this coming season in the rules. I also liked that they removed the ability to do a round-off back walkover in level 1. Safety and progression-wise it makes a lot more sense as athletes get ready to perform a ro bhs.

No more RO bwo in level 1?

 

[lisaceline12]

No more RO bwo in level 1?

My bad, I reread the updated rules. I like that you need to pause after the RO now.

Side Note: I would've just deleted my question but I'm still new and not sure how to do that yet lol.

 

[GlitterPlz]

I knew I had at least one more

Limit the number of attempts a team can make to secure a Worlds bid.

I personally know of a team that went to FIVE different competitions to get their bid. Where else in life are you given a fifth chance after you've proven four times that you don't deserve it.

Jumping off this: minimum scores to receive said bid. We had a local team here that won a bid by default and had one of the lowest scores of the entire competition. This had to be an embarrassment to the EP.

 

[Nvdw]

I would like to see a reduction in the number of levels/ages/gender splits, even if it means combining more levels if there is not enough competition (example small /large senior co-ed 4 against each other). At least one team (probably more but I happen to know of the one), won D2 Summit and did not compete against anyone in either round. Not the teams fault but something is wrong with a system that allows that in my opinion. Plus why travel if you aren't competing against anyone? just a showcase or local high school comp. would accomplish same.

This is how we do it here in Belgium, where there aren't enough teams to split all divisions.
We have a 'beginner' category, which translates to level 3 skills (level 1 and 2 teams would compete here as well). There's no split between allgirl and coed. All beginner teams compete in 1 category.
And then we have the 'advanced' category, which is based on level 5, but level 4 would compete here as well. Again, allgirl and coed are being combined here. I feel like it's better this way when there aren't anough teams because you still have the competition spirit, and kids learn how to deal with not being placed 1st.

ETA: This past nationals we had 5 teams in the beginner category and 2 in the advanced...

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

Jumping off this: minimum scores to receive said bid. We had a local team here that won a bid by default and had one of the lowest scores of the entire competition. This had to be an embarrassment to the EP.

That's basically what happened in the situation I described. The competition where they were finally gifted a chance to go embarrass themselves had something like 8 teams without bids and 6 bids to give away. They were no where close to winning, but got one anyway.

If you're not going to be competitive, there are much more fiscally responsible ways to go to Disney World with your friends.

 

[Cheer Dad]

My bad, I reread the updated rules. I like that you need to pause after the RO now.

Side Note: I would've just deleted my question but I'm still new and not sure how to do that yet lol.

You can use the Edit option to delete text within a post but you can never really delete the whole post.




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[Boughetto]

USASF is a complete joke.

Age floors should be a real thing. 18-year old males shuttle launching 11 year old
Females in baskets is a safety issue... not to mention it makes the males look like total pansies, no matter how high they throw her (yea, we can all tell how old she is from the crowd).

I needed this chuckle early this morning with my coffee. :D

 

[dat.jpp]

USASF is a complete joke.

Change the age grid, then change it back. Even though it was less than a month later, some people had tryouts in that time. Which power-gym wanted it changed back, and why?

No transparency in scoring. Does Live! Still exist? That was how competitions should be ran. Do your routine and go sit in the winners circle like Secretariat until someone comes along and outscores you.

Get rid of that damn 18-page rubric. There's been less documentation on Benghazi. In the meantime, if a category is worth 5 points, make it worth 5 points. If you're going to automatically score everyone between a 4 and a 5, then make the friggin' thing worth 1 point.

Age floors should be a real thing. 18-year old males shuttle launching 11 year old
Females in baskets is a safety issue... not to mention it makes the males look like total pansies, no matter how high they throw her (yea, we can all tell how old she is from the crowd).

Enforce the rules all year long. If Worlds and the Summit have rules about organized entries and over celebrations, enforce that poop in October. If Worlds and the Summit have rules about out of bounds, then I should get a deduction for stepping off the mat at Christmas. If you're not going to enforce it, take if out.

I'm sure I have more. I'm exausted

Yes, Live! still exist, my whole gym competed at Live! Philly this January.

 

[dat.jpp]

Also, are competitions allowed not to give out bids if there the only one in the division and they have a low-a$$ score?

 

[tumbleyoda]

1. Scoring Transparency. This is utterly ridiculous. If you refuse to stand behind your scores, it is not a sport. It is a performance.
2. Separate judging from the EP's and make an independent judging body. EP has to contact judging body for judges, not just reaching out to their friends who are judges. Independent judging body trains, rates, reviews judges. They also can deal with complaints on judges and act accordingly for more training or discipline. We need to eliminate this East Coast judges like this but West Coast judges want to see this. (yes we have been told this several times at several events during score reviews) If not, we should know who is on the judging panel 2 weeks before competitions so we can adjust routines accordingly if we desire.
3. D1 or D2. Not both.
4. While I would like to see a minimum score to be eligible for Worlds bids, I can see the issues with it as well including a low scoring panel, and to be honest more bids means more money. If #2 is enacted and judges are trained properly, that should be eliminated in time. Kinda hard to say don't offer something that makes you mad money with gyms chasing after bids.
5. I would like to see a mandate rule like we have in Power Tumbling. if you place 1st at nationals out of a certain amount of athletes, you are mandated to move up to the next level. If 2 - 3 and you have certain amount of athletes you are mandated to move up. You get a perfect score, you move up. Basically it prevents sandbagging an athlete at an easier level just to win every year.

This could be applied in this manner - if you place first two years in a row in D2, your program moves up to D1. That is not luck. That is skill and you are proving you have maxed that competitive environment multiple times. You could extend it to top 3 placements in 3 year time span. While not perfect, it does address the D1 complaint of they want more competitors instead of seeing the same faces every time and it does not let really good gyms hide forever in D2. It also allows new blood to filter into top spots in D2. You can even have a graduation to D1 celebration sponsored by Varsity.

I understand more than anyone because of our own demographic how different your teams can be from year to year in make up, skill level, intensity, etc. With a military base 15 minutes from us and being in Illinois where they can not do School cheer and All Stars at the same time, we lose numerous kids each year due to circumstances we have absolutely zero control over. Eliminate those issues and we could easily be D1 and have two - three Worlds division teams. In my mind and taking the true intention of D2 from the many years it was discussed prior to something being instituted, that would return it to it's true intention. Letting smaller gyms grow their program until they were truly competitive with D1 gyms. It was more than just a numbers issue. It was recognizing the difference between competing and being competitive.

 

[DaniV]

1. Scoring Transparency. This is utterly ridiculous. If you refuse to stand behind your scores, it is not a sport. It is a performance.
2. Separate judging from the EP's and make an independent judging body. EP has to contact judging body for judges, not just reaching out to their friends who are judges. Independent judging body trains, rates, reviews judges. They also can deal with complaints on judges and act accordingly for more training or discipline. We need to eliminate this East Coast judges like this but West Coast judges want to see this. (yes we have been told this several times at several events during score reviews) If not, we should know who is on the judging panel 2 weeks before competitions so we can adjust routines accordingly if we desire.
3. D1 or D2. Not both.
4. While I would like to see a minimum score to be eligible for Worlds bids, I can see the issues with it as well including a low scoring panel, and to be honest more bids means more money. If #2 is enacted and judges are trained properly, that should be eliminated in time. Kinda hard to say don't offer something that makes you mad money with gyms chasing after bids.
5. I would like to see a mandate rule like we have in Power Tumbling. if you place 1st at nationals out of a certain amount of athletes, you are mandated to move up to the next level. If 2 - 3 and you have certain amount of athletes you are mandated to move up. You get a perfect score, you move up. Basically it prevents sandbagging an athlete at an easier level just to win every year.

This could be applied in this manner - if you place first two years in a row in D2, your program moves up to D1. That is not luck. That is skill and you are proving you have maxed that competitive environment multiple times. You could extend it to top 3 placements in 3 year time span. While not perfect, it does address the D1 complaint of they want more competitors instead of seeing the same faces every time and it does not let really good gyms hide forever in D2. It also allows new blood to filter into top spots in D2. You can even have a graduation to D1 celebration sponsored by Varsity.

I understand more than anyone because of our own demographic how different your teams can be from year to year in make up, skill level, intensity, etc. With a military base 15 minutes from us and being in Illinois where they can not do School cheer and All Stars at the same time, we lose numerous kids each year due to circumstances we have absolutely zero control over. Eliminate those issues and we could easily be D1 and have two - three Worlds division teams. In my mind and taking the true intention of D2 from the many years it was discussed prior to something being instituted, that would return it to it's true intention. Letting smaller gyms grow their program until they were truly competitive with D1 gyms. It was more than just a numbers issue. It was recognizing the difference between competing and being competitive.

That is a very interesting point for #5.... I definitely see where you are coming from in however I'm just thinking about one particular athlete that I have who is going on her 5th year at level 1. She has very proficiently mastered that level with darn near perfect walkovers but cannot back handspring and is not even close to it (even though we've been working towards it for a few years). Some of it her dedication to learning it but some of it also stems from a mental block. I would not want to move her up to level 2 because she wouldn't be able to participate in any tumbling and full squad sync'd passes are becoming more and more important.


ETA: Or would you only need to move a certain percentage of athletes up from that team to comply? Would have to change mid-season?

 

[UCFKnights07]

That is a very interesting point for #5.... I definitely see where you are coming from in however I'm just thinking about one particular athlete that I have who is going on her 5th year at level 1. She has very proficiently mastered that level with darn near perfect walkovers but cannot back handspring and is not even close to it (even though we've been working towards it for a few years). Some of it her dedication to learning it but some of it also stems from a mental block. I would not want to move her up to level 2 because she wouldn't be able to participate in any tumbling and full squad sync'd passes are becoming more and more important.


ETA: Or would you only need to move a certain percentage of athletes up from that team to comply? Would have to change mid-season?

number 5 also doesnt make a ton of sense to me, some kids just cant get all the level 5, or 4, 3, etc etc tumbling needed for that level.
back when i was in allstars i could do any kind of standing tumbling till i was blue in the face, multiple back handspring to full, sure (mind you this was the 2006-2008 era). But dont dare ask me to do any running tumbling past a roundoff back handspring layout. I wouldnt even have considered it a mental block, some kids just dont get enough strength or stamina to pull certain skills.